Differences....

Discussion in 'Thai Boxing' started by evojm72, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. evojm72

    evojm72 Valued Member

    Forgive me if my naiviety makes me sound stupid but what essentially are the differences between Muay Thai & Kick Boxing?
     
  2. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Pm'd you

    Watch some Thai vids from YouTube then search K1
     
  3. Seviko

    Seviko Enlightened

    Kickboxing is a watered down form of muay thai. Difference is the tradition, discipline, and some moves. Muay thai lets you use the knee and elbow along with the clinch. It's more brutal than kickboxing basically.
     
  4. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Go stand in the corner
     
  5. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    The Thais get to do a funky dance before they rumble?

    Mitch :D
     
  6. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    That's it in a nutshell!
     
  7. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Kickboxing started as a separate entity to thai boxing, it originated from Karate. Hence why it used to be known as 'full contact karate'.

    I've done both and kickboxing does some things differently to thai boxing, and not neccesserily for the worse.

    End of the day though the kicking and punching isn't that much differerent between the two. More leg chambering in kickboxing usually is the biggest difference I've found. Obviously thai is more complete as a form of fighting what with elbows, knees and general clinch work.
     
  8. Seviko

    Seviko Enlightened

    Ya i was saying it as a personal opinon not that it actually comes from it..theres people who have agreed and disagreed.
     
  9. evojm72

    evojm72 Valued Member

    So basically kickboxing doesn't allow the use of elbows or the clinch then?
     
  10. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Kickboxing is such a loose term it can mean anything from non-contact (you did read that right) through semi contact, light contact and then onto full contact. Full contact has a whole variety of rulesets. It can have punches, kicks & knees. I've not seen elbows used under kickboxing rules but as long as both people were happy but I think it'd get bumped to muay thai.
    O/P If you look at the fight lists from liquid on the site you'll see a pretty even mix of Thai bouts, kickboxing and MMA. They all train in the same gym
     
  11. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Bear with me - don't know how many posts this'll take but I wanna get in there before people who should know better start on with silly things.

    The difference between the two is so much more than just being allowed to use elbows and knees. That's usually the stance a lot of Full Contact kickboxers have. K1 can't really be described as kickboxing since the rules and, more importantly, the scoring method are almost identical to muay thai.

    Full Contact Kickboxing, the traditional form of kickboxing that originated as Full Contact Karate came from more of shotokan style than anything else. It basically evolved from people using the ruleset and techniques that they used in semi contact sparring undera full contact setting. The rules were virtually the same:
    *No strikes below the waist.
    *Only punches and kicks are allowed - kicking with the shin is penalised.
    *No strikes to your opponent's back or the back of the head.
    *No clinching.
    *No sweeps.
    *No spinning backfists (general rule).
    *Fighters are not allowed to grab or hold an opponent's arm or leg - blocking only.
    *and the MOST important difference is the scoring. It's scored like amateur boxing - with a clicker. Every clean strike that lands, regardless of effect, will score a point. 1 point for punches, 2 for kicks to the body and 3 points for kicks to the head. The person with the most points in a round wins the round, the person with the most rounds won wins the fight. This means that a vast majority of techniques are thrown not for effect but to land a touch. This approach also makes a big difference to the mechanics of a kickboxer's kicks - they tend to focus much more on agility and speed than power meaning that if they branch out to K1 or something similar they then have to relearn how to throw a basic roundhouse.

    OK

    Lowkick Kickboxing is a more modern version of the old classic. It's still based on the original ruleset with the original scoring method but basically it now allows kicks below the waist. Groin shots are obviously not allowed. Leg kicks score 1 point and no additional point is awarded for kicking an opponent's legs out from under them. Sweeps are allowed.

    Next.

    K1 is a brand name used for a promotion and it's ruleset. The original K1 came from an open tournament held in Japan, open to all styles that is, and fought under what initally was kyokushin karate rules (meaning that it was largely influenced by Muay Thai - there's a lot of info on that point, go look it up on your own it's a separate subject). Now the rules and the scoring criteria have changed vastly over the last 20 years becoming the beast that it is today so I won't bore you with the details but will sum up what the rules and scoring criteria are today:
    *Punches, kicks AND knees are allowed.
    *elbows are not allowed.
    *strikes below the waist are allowed
    *strikes to your opponents back and the back of the head are allowed
    *clinching is NOT allowed
    *grabbing your opponent's leg or arm IS allowed
    *kicking an opponent's legs out from under him is allowed but is not scored.
    *hip throws are not allowed
    *sweeps are not allowed
    *spinning backfists are allowed*the biggest difference is the scoring criteria which not only allows but ENCOURAGES kicks with the shin because instead of using a points and clicker system it uses a 10 point scoring system (which I won't go into - again, it's another subject entirely) and awards a score only to clean techniques that have a visible effect. Now that alone is a change that would transform virtually most martial arts from being the crappy unrealistic version that I consider them to be, into something that actually translates well to the original subject. Fighting. It's fought over 3 x 3 minute rounds with the option of additional "sudden death" rounds if a draw has been declared. Judges place equal emphasis on boxing, low, mid and high kicks and knees - the emphasis is placed on EFFECT and the judges are also looking to see who is the more aggressive fighter. This is part of why there are so many knockouts in K1. As said before - don't confuse K1 with kickboxing - it's origin was influenced by Muay Thai and essentially is a slightly watered down version of Muay Thai. don't take me the wrong way on that - I love K1 and I really rate the fighters. there's a lot of skill there and most can and do compete under muay thai rules as well.

    Lastly.

    Muay Thai. A sport adaption and modern version of the traditional martial art of Muay Boran. Muay Thai literally translating as Thai Boxing (THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE IT'S THE SAME THING) and Muay Boran literally translating as Ancient Boxing. Muay Boran incidentally was apparently adapted thousands of years ago from some form of kung fu - it certainly bears heavy resemblance to Sanshou but then it also bears heavy resemblance to a lot of martial arts. The lowdown is this:
    *It's fought over 5 x 3 minute rounds uing a 10 point scoring system placing emphasis on effect (again) and the later rounds are judged more heavily. The reasoning being that the fighter who is finishing stronger is, in all likelihood, the one who would eventually win if more rounds were added. This means that the business end of the fight usually starts in round 3 with rounds 1 and 2 usually starting out as a feeler round for the fighters to get used to each other and round 4 as the most heavily scored round. Now thats a basic generalisation and not entirely correct but I could go into a lot more detail and that's just unneccessary.
    *Punches, elbows, knees and kicks are allowed
    *spinning backfists (and elbows!) are allowed.
    *strikes below the waist are allowed
    *clinching is allowed
    *strikes below the waist are allowed and kicking your opponent's legs out from under him (as well as basically throwing your opponent to the ground) score.
    *sweeps and hip throws are not allowed.
    *grabbing your opponent's legs and/or arm is allowed
    *kicks to your opponents back and back of the head are allowed however care must be taken not to target the neck or spine as this is penalised.
    It basically allows everything that K1 does plus a few more things and is fought over more rounds. It also uses an almost identical scoring criteria. Now, there's a few generalities in there and some things that are teechnically wrong but to explain properly would take more space than this thread currently uses. But the difference between K1 and Muay Thai is largely to do with the clinching and elbows - as K1 fighters don't have to worry about these aspects of the fight it means they can take advantage of their absence. Masato may have beaten Buakaw a couple of times but I seriously doubt that'd ever have happened under full thai rules.

    Want any more info PM me.

    Lol snoop you must've gone to a baaaaaaad gym man if you didn't notice much of a difference between the two! Whereabouts you from again?
     
  12. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    The difference beetween Muay Thai and Kickboxing is..2,000 years of culture:)
     
  13. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    He's one of Russ's lads. The lines between the two get a little blurry.
    The shows all start out with a K1 base and it's then up to the fighters if they want Thai or any other ruleset.
     
  14. evojm72

    evojm72 Valued Member

    Looks like I may have opened up a bit more a can of worms than I thought!
     
  15. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    It's always like this here.

    Alot of stuff marketed as muay thai isn't. thai boxing became popular and many of the old kickboxing club just changed their names to thai boxing.

    FC and MB are purists and rightly protective if muay thai and it's tradition and ruleset. FC and Russ go back a long way, right back to the early days of the Springfield
     
  16. Master Betty

    Master Betty Banned Banned

    Russ is, I believe, judging from his fights in the 80's someone with a background in traditional kickboxing before he went to Muay Thai? That said, the sport looked very different in the western world back then - a lot more similar to kickboxing than it is now.
     
  17. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    His instructor was Master Toddy and he began with thai boxing but then had to switch to kickboxing to get fights, then as you say back to thai. He has fighters in both styles but the root I would say is nearer to K1 now with elbow techniques and some clinch work. Hands are the dominant weapon together with low kicks
     
  18. liokault

    liokault Banned Banned

    Pffffft San Shou ftw:woo:
     
  19. evojm72

    evojm72 Valued Member

    ????????
     
  20. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Full contact Chinese stylee
     

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