Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Love Budo, Jun 14, 2005.
Hey nice one let's stick some petrol on the fire shall we I'm sure it'll help :bang: :bang: :bang:
So.... the Genbukan guys are my guys?
You have a point there, I take my comment back.
Although, where I come from, we call it gasoline... stupid Yanks
Actually it must have brought up a good conversation becasue Satori has opened another thread on the subject so if this one was to go back to the original question and the other thread serves it purpose then everyones happy, now where's my petrol can!!!
Any members of the Jinenkan out there that can fill us in on what training under Manaka-sensei is like?
Any members of the Bujinkan that want to fill us in too? As has been explained in this thread (and previously unknown to me until this point), it seems that Bujinkan instruction varies from teacher to teacher, and so each school could be markedly different in approach, training, and emphasis. I'd really like to hear about how the Bujinkan incorporates outside styles (Ju-Jutsu, Kickboxing, etc...) into their regime, if they do.
May you achieve
Hey all. One of the last times I got over to train at Ed's, two members of Jinenkan, Chad and Eric (also ranked in Bujinkan), gave a "guest session." It was a different experience, indeed, from ordinary training at the Barn.
I missed the initial warmups, and arrived afterwards. According to my buyu Chris, there was much painful holding in a horse stance to build the muscles (I assume). This reminded me of doing eternal wall sitting when I was on the ski team at school. Legs start shaking, sweat just pops out of the temples, that sort of thing. Chris is on a high school swim team so it was basically nothing he wasn't used to.
The training, when I arrived, was relentless, with full-force slams, full-speed attacks, and take downs that were anything but easy or soft. The training did NOT let up, and there was NO talking, chatting, milling about, mulling things over, or "looking on". You either trained, or you had someone train on you. Now, training at Ed's is usually fairly easygoing, with quick spurts of "Mixing it up" followed by relaxed jaunts of trying to figure things out and get technique right; you choose the level of intensity with your uke, and either build it up or cool it down as appropriate.
With the Jinenkan instructors in charge, there was only one level intensity: absolute, spitting mad, stepped-on-a-hornets-nest intensity.
Normally, during breaks in training with the Bujinkan, when the instructor would speak, people would sit in seiza, or stand quietly and listen. With the two Jinenkan instructors, there was no standing. Everyone was asked to sit. Okay, I lie: there was no "requesting" that people sit. Everyone was ordered to sit down and shut up, kind the way you'd tell a class of unruly eighth graders to do the same. A student near me leaned over to say something to another student, and another student, also in the Jinenkan, I imagine, scolded them [in a "loud whisper"] for being disrespectful--he wasn't just giving a suggestion--he was truly ****ed off that the two were talking while the instructors demonstrated.
All eyes up front, no looking around, no ADHD allowed. Period.
I had the distinct impression that they'd arrived with an agenda to, well, contrast their more regimented training (solid, hard corps focus on the basics, with a punishing series of full-force attacks and full-speed responses) with the relaxed, family-like atmosphere normally seen at the Barn. They were kicking **** and taking names, and my gut told me that they were men on a mission, of sorts. Almost like they'd decided to "show these people what real training is like".
They wanted everyone to learn, and although the TRAINING was nothing short of brutal, the advice they gave was incredibly sound, and their demonstrations picture perfect, and their willingness to point out holes or flaws in technique was mixed with a sincere desire to get everyone able to hit hard, evade well, and TAKE A HIT!!!!! And you know what? Afterwards, tired, worn out, and totally drained, I felt good! Bloody and dirty, but GOOD!
For everyday training, such regimentation for ME wouldn't be what I want, but the "flavor"--the "feel" if you will of that earnestness mixed with joy in doing the basics without error--was spot-on. I'd almost hazard that--and this is based only on my admittedly shortlived flirtation with Jinenkan--the Jinenkan training is at the the midway point between Genbukan (based upon what I've just read) and Bujinkan, a place to get a really firm foundation, and to learn techniques with an eye toward, well, getting those crucial first steps right.
That's just my point of view. Jinenkan training wouldn't be for me, based only on my personality (and my gut feeling), but elements of it speak truth to my spirit, especially the "slam!/wham!/pow!" flavor of training.
I have a genuine question about distance learning in the Genbukan.
from the same page as the one I quoted earlier,
It states that Genbukan people can learn via video and then test at events.
Genbukan buyu, can you please shed some light on this? I wish to know if my understanding is correct.
The site is a little misleading (unintentional or not, I can't tell), as it does say something along those lines.
However, the banner and the practice are EXTREMELY different. Every Genbukan instructor I know (all of three...but its all I have to go on) has never come across a "distance learner", and generally scoffs at the idea. The atmosphere in a Genbukan Dojo is simply too formal and precise to be emulated by at home video training. The only situation I can think of that would qualify would be as follows; After studying for several years with an instructor, I end up moving to an area where there are no Genbukan schools.
However, I purchase the tapes to use a reference, get feedback from my instructor via phone/e-mail (since we would have developed a rapport after several years), and travel to visit him when I can (anywhere from once a month to once every six months). During this visits, we train and he examines me. If I am ready, he will test me. If not, he'll correct me and send me home to train by myself until my next meet. Of course, testing/training this way will increase your rank at a snail's pace...but I suppose it COULD be possible.
To be honest, I have no idea why that is even on there. Perhaps the site creator wanted the Genbukan to appear more open and friendly?
I can definately vouch for it not being common or widely practiced.
May you achieve
Thanks for the information.
wow there really arent many other Jinenkan students
Being relatively new to Genbukan I will share my experience so far.
My spouse and I have been training with our instructor since last April. He no longer has a dojo, and we were his only two students when we started. He has recently picked up a third student. We practice in his backyard, and the mood is relatively fun and light hearted.
At first I thought that this attitude might take away from our training, however, since the class is so small we come away knowing every technique he has taught us that day (whether we remember it for next week is the question).
I've read posts in regards to the "regimented formality" of Genbukan. We have the customary opening, and closing ceremonies, bow in and out of the dojo, bow weapons in and out and treat our sensei with respect but there is nothing that seems too regimental.
We learn techniques of our kyu but we also learn interesting techniques from the higher kyus to remind us what we're training for. For example, we learned how to throw shurikens a few classes ago, and were encouraged to practice them at home. Not because it was a necessary technique but because it taught us how to properly shift our weight from our back leg to our front leg.
-I'm pleased to hear about your experience with the Genbukan, as I only have my own and a few others to draw upon in regards to "standard atmosphere".
I think you bring up a good point that it really does depend on the instructor, even in an organization that has a defined syllabus.
The reasoning for my rather formal training environment probably has a lot to do with my instructor. He's a big, strong, ex-military Israeli with a shaved head (we're talking bic'd!) and ranks in Judo and Kyokushinkai Karate. He also studied, lived, and tested under Tanemura Sensei while living in Japan. I'm sure his past experience and his own demeanor greatly shape the atmosphere where I train.
Thanks for your input!
May you achieve
In my trainind we do something called "Jokage" a simple sparring requiring you stand arms length from a person and have one start slowly punching for the head or groin and the the other uses Jodan or gedanuke's to block, can be great fun especially when you get better at it
Have you ever trained with Tanemura? Or any stories from people who have?
HA HA HA!!! I too am privleged to train under an ex military Israeli but he is by far different, a very loose and gentle man, until he teaches you a waza, then reality hits (or maybe that was the floor)
-I wish! No, no...but my instructor trained, tested, and lived with Tanemura sensei. He rarely speaks about it, but he does convey that Tanemura sensei is VERY demanding, a bit strict, and EXTREMELY detail oriented.
Don't get me wrong, my instructor feels very fond of Tanemura sensei, and has pictures along the training room of him. I think he just wants to ensure that we have the proper mindset that he was trained in, just in case some of us ever happen to train with Tanemura sensei.
May you achieve
Ok, here comes some massive Thread necromancy...
I have just started training in the Jinenkan a couple weeks ago, which I chose primarily for reasons of distance (it is still an hour's drive, though). I am therefore not qualified to comment too much much on their training methods.
I can say a few things, though, about fees and general structure.
1. Has a rather hard-hitting joining fee, but that includes the uniform. This can be cut in half with a 'first month free' pass, which is ....easy to get, and I won't comment on that further.
2. Requires a six month commitment, with direct debit from a bank/credit account per month. This was almost the deal breaker for me, since I don't like anyone/thing have access to my accounts like that.
3. There is a 20% discount and other incentives tied to bringing in new members.
4. Monthly cost seemed comprable to quotes I got from the Bujinkan, but they have a "basic program" that is less, that includes no weapon training.
1. Your not given any training manual at start, and you have to sign an agreement that you will not bring in any form of recording devices to training sessions. There are no tapes/dvds/etc. available for purchase.
2. Formality seems to be somewhere between what is being described for some of those Genbukan places, and the Bujinkan. Though somewhat formal in class structure, Sensai himself is very laid back.
3. No real rondeli for lower kyu-ranked students (9th-5th kyu), but from hearing students talk, that might be different for advanced students.
I'll more information as a gain more information.
Sorry for the epic thread necro. But does anyone have any further info on the jinenkan school?
As our Jinenekan Dojo is the nearest one to you, I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you have (if I'm able to that is).
As the second person who posted mentioned, Manaka Sensei focuses a lot on having proper Kihon. He is very receptive to questions thought the answer may be a lot simpler than you were expecting, sometimes only one word. Usually "Keiko."
Separate names with a comma.