Dennis Jones

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by puma, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Anyone trained with Dennis Jones? My friend has just shown me 2 videos of him trying to hit a bag on youtube. His technique really is terrible, just like a pub drunk swinging wildly. My friend tells me Jones does a lot of seminars and articles, but I think he may be winding me up because I can't believe it from the videos. Is he telling me the truth?
  2. Hiroji

    Hiroji laugh often, love much

    yep hes telling the truth - he had a article in the magazine Martial Arts Illustrated - not sure if he still does. He came across as the hard man who knows how it goes down on the str33ts and your pathetic karate wont stand a chance type.
  3. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Oh, really? Does he do any style then, or is it his 'own' thing? He does look very big in the viideos either. Is he little?
  4. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Sorry, I meant DOESN'T look very big, obviously.
  5. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Do you mean this?


    Now...reading the description of how heavy the bag is I think that's not bad punching at all. The sort of punching that's not going to win kata competition but the sort that will win street fights. Hard solid basic punching. It seems to me he's training for punching in a specific situation (bareknuckle in the street).
    So that bagwork is working sort of multiple pre-emptive strikes rather than the "flow" a boxer is looking for on the heavy bag. Each one is a full power finishing shot and I wouldn't want to get hit with any of them. The kicks seemed to serve as openers to get the attention down and make room for the high line shot.
    In terms of seminars I believe Mr Jones teaches more how to apply martial arts and karate for the street rather than the mechanics of throwing a pleasing looking youtube punch.
  6. puma

    puma Valued Member

    No, although that one was crap as well. It was called pre-emtive I think. He has a bag that isn't hung properly, and elbows it and it comes down, surprise, surprise. Then he basically throws punches at the bag which of course is hanging by a window. At one stage, he actually puts his right fist into his left hand, and leans back. The only other thing he needed to do was lift up his left leg, and it would have been the exact position of a pitcher in baseball! Anyway, just wondered.
  7. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    It should be noted that it is a very hard bag. Most reading this would probably break their hands!
    And he is getting an angle not just hitting to hit.The correct angle to get the punch in or around a gaurd or that kind of idea. It is more street pre-emtive ,one shot, stuff it seems,in or outside the local pub.
    I know people who are rated who rate Dennis Jones.He has done the business so to speak. His ideas and tactics are worth a look in my view,on top of an ability to fight.
  8. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Uhhhhmmmm. I'm not so sure. The punches in that video clip are very slow, and he shows the punch for way too long for my liking. This is especially illustrated from around the 2:14 mark onwards. Look how far behind him he swings those shots from. This is a big no-no in any instance I would imagine. He leaves himself open, and it doesn't do anything for power as it just becomes an arm swing. Sure, you may get away with it in a pub on a drunk that is seeing double, but I doubt he would get away with it on an experienced person. Also, he has no recovery position, so if he misses or doesn't hurt the person I think it would land him in trouble. Just my opinion, but I didn't think much of it to be honest.
  9. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Just watched the vid clip and have to say I liked it,any one of those shots connecting to a correct target would do the job intended Im sure,how heavy is the bag? anyone know?.:)
  10. puma

    puma Valued Member

    If they connected and the opponent hasn't moved or hit him by the time his hand has passed his backside. I don't think the bag is that heavy to be honest. Looks fairly standard. It may be hard, but it doesn't look anything out of the ordinary.
  11. puma

    puma Valued Member

    On the subject of bags, has anyone ever used a water-filled bag? I was told once Tyson used one, a 200lb one.
  12. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    Ok read a few posts my 2p..

    You can't judge power by watching a video, hitting a heavy bag with no gloves takes skill if you ask me and the way he lands the haymakers on that bag the average joe will go home with a broken wrist.

    If you look at the clips you can see his lead hand the shoulder and hip are pushed behind the punch and the other hook the hip and knee dip allow him to get low and use his body behind the punch. Decent form for a haymaker if you ask me...

    Not everyone stands in walking stance throwing punches from the waist you know
  13. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Dennis Jones has earned his stripes through real life experience. His knowledge and ability is enough to draw people to his seminars; sadly it draws out a lot of Youtube haterz and keyboard warriors, too.
  14. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    I don't really know anything about Dennis, other than that he has a worthy reputation working the doors. So I looked up the following vids on youtube.



    Looking at those I'd say that the way he's hitting the bag is an integral part of his overall approach and needs to be viewed in that context. It seems to work pretty well for him.

    I think you've always got to take someone who's made it work for real repeatedly quite seriously.


    P.S. And I always respect someone who hits the heavy bag without mitts/wraps, regardless of the exact weight or density of the bag.
  15. DragonPrawn

    DragonPrawn Valued Member

    He definitely looks like a KO kinda guy. :)
  16. puma

    puma Valued Member

    So none of you think you can hit as hard as that? Surely any man can swing at a bag like that. Considering those punches are meant to be 'for real', he only seems to work middle distance. This is the most comfortable position to punch from, especially on a bag. I would have thought up close punches would have been important to him, but then technically they are harder to get power. You can't just swing.

    Why the relevance of hitting without gloves Mike?
  17. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    I'm fairly sure I can hit hard, that was not your original question though! Hitting without gloves is good conditioning.

    Also striking at middle range if you KNOW someone wants to attack you why do you want to let them step in so close to you? Granted most situations are up close but people who preach reading people and using the fence as a defensive system all of your strikes would be that distance and no closer
  18. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    Hi Puma

    First gloves (or not). Quite simply I don't see many people work a heavy bag without gloves or wraps. And typically when they do (with gloves) there are lots of techniques thrown in that simply wouldn't work without gloves as you'd damage your hand in the process. Working it without gloves (and actually hitting rather than tapping) is unforgiving, you have to get your angles right or you can easily cause yourself damage.

    Second, middle distance. I've only watched the 3 videos on this thread so I don't know anything further about his approach. But from these 3 vids I get the impression that he has a specific, consistent approach that works for him. Namely that he disarms the opponent verbally / with body language then pops them with one good shot. I suspect (reading from the vids and knowing a little of his reputation) that he is a master of both this mental disarming and timing. What might seem a crudely telegraphed technique when you're in a sparring environment could be hugely effective if applied with the right setup in a different context (ie. door-work, self-defence). Its like DIY, the secret is in getting the preparation right before starting the actual work.

    I presume Dennis has a backup plan and so can work at closer range if his chosen tactic doesn't work, but we're only seeing a snapshot of what he does - the most important part of it granted , but still only a snapshot.

    Another point to consider when watching anyone do bag work is what they're focussing on at the time. Are they simulating having a fight, using all of their arsenal in free play, or are they working on specific skills? If its the latter then they might do things that might look odd in a different context.

    On a final note, I don't really take too much note of what anyone actually looks like when they're doing their art. I've learnt over time that I really need to feel it to appreciate its value (or lack of). That said, the way he's hitting the bag may look like wild swings, but I can see a linkage between his fist and his core as he strikes most of the time, that says to me that he is delivering power from his centre.

  19. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Well Mike, I take your point about the gloves/no gloves, although I am not sure that is entirely true. With gloves you still have to line your wrist correctly, etc. You can't just stick a pair of gloves on and whack a bag full-pelt. You'll still get hurt. I was talking to someone last night actually, and they were of the opinion that if you really whack hard, and you train a lot, you will have wrist injuries anyway sooner or later, as the constant impact will have an effect. Put simply, he said if you hit like Tyson, you wouldn't be able to hit a rock-solid bag that isn't going to budge with too many bare knuckle shots. He said, yeah, maybe a few, but if you keep doing it something has to give. He was of the opinion that yeah, once in a while go without gloves, it is good to use a decent fist, but not all the time. He did acknowledge as well that boxers or people that only use gloves generally don't close their hands properly, and this leads to hand problems that could possibly be avoided. What do you think?

    What your focusing on at the time of bag work was an interesting point. One thing I was always told is that when you are throwing, you have to be prepared for the possibility that you may be getting hit at the same time, or slightly before, etc. Or of course you may miss. This is why just swinging at a bag isn't really doing anything. We all know things don't always go as expected. Recovery and positioning is very important, which in this instance seems to be missing.

    I don't really agree that he is delivering power from his centre. The reason is, he pulls his punches back and telegraphs them, and this is the sign of an arm punch. If he was hitting from his centre, his body would go first, and there would be no need for that pull back. Telegraphing your shots is a big no-no in any form, and in self-defense situations more so. Any hesitation gets you killed. It would be interesting if someone from GKR or something like that performed this bag work. I wonder what people would say then?
  20. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I would say the same as I said before.
    Form not so hot, power and potential street effectiveness as a one shot KO from a fence pretty good.

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