Definition of a "McDojang" or "McDojo"?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Tian-Tian, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    :confused: Hey all!

    Been browsing the forums this morning with my ankle up... kept seeing "McDojang" and "McDojo" crop up here and there in discussion and I want some clarification on the lingo. I know it can be a "red herring" to label a school as such, but I also want to really know what to watch out for in the future.

    From what I've gathered so far, a McDojang is:

    A wannabe martial arts school that is a watered down, commercialized version of the art (specifically TDK). It is a school that focuses only on getting money from their students, whether that's through belt test costs, uniforms, patches, etc... a school that focuses on belt color and not on ability or skill. It is a school where the instructor is disrespectful to his/her students or their art. The instructor does not teach poomsae or forms correctly (if at all). The instructor is focused only on winning medals, trophies and ribbons and does not take into full consideration the needs of their students (physical, emotional or mental... or spiritual, for that matter). The instructor does not take the time to correct their students or over-corrects them. The general atmosphere of the dojo is cocky and ego-driven. There are incorrect characters and hangul painted on the walls for decoration (this irks me to no end!!!). The dojo itself is in a storefront with poor floors and low ceilings. The students that train at the McDojo look down on newcomers (especially if their belt color is a lower rank than theirs) instead of being helpful and courteous. The McDojang tries to reel you in with false advertising about what style or art they teach. The McDojo tries to bind you down with ridiculous, long-term contracts. The black belts there flaunt their status... even if they are late to class.


    Did I get the nail on the head or am I way off the mark??

    Opinions?
     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    A wannabe martial arts school that is a watered down, commercialized version of the art (specifically TDK)

    TKD is a prominent McDojang style but it's not specifically about TKD. These days McDojos are often "kickboxing" because it's such a generic term the instructor can teach more freely without outside criticism having an easy way in. He can add musical forms, tricking, "MMA" (even though he's not qualified to teach it) etc without the real TKD boys pointing out his faults.
    All arts have their McDojo's basically.

    It is a school where the instructor is disrespectful to his/her students or their art.

    Nope. Students = money therefore a McDojo instructor will often be very friendly and respectful to students so they stay and keep paying. He'll be cokcy and strut abut with a gi that's a different colour but he'll generally be a personable chap.

    The instructor does not teach poomsae or forms correctly (if at all).

    Quite the opposite actually. The average Mcdojang will teach a load of forms but no actual application/bunkai of those forms or actual fighting skill to back them up. Forms are the McDojo's friend because there are a load of them, they are easy to teach to lots of people and they make nice easy criteria for grading withouty anyone actually getting hit or hurt.

    The dojo itself is in a storefront with poor floors and low ceilings.

    Not always. Some McDojos have great facilities. Some are in crap locations.

    All the rest was pretty much in the right ball park although there are plenty of other indicators too.
     
  3. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    I stand corrected; thank you! :)

    So what are the other indicators, if you don't mind me asking?
     
  4. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    The name says it all. Highly-commercialized and poor quality.

    Definitely not a criteria. A competition/tournament emphasis has no impact on whether a school is a McDojo/McDojang. My old fencing club was extremely competition-oriented, not about "self-growth," but it was a serious school that taught the sport well and wasn't just about the money.

    Since many McDojangs/McDojos are some sort of pyramid scheme, expect everyone to be very welcoming of newcomers (who have cash in hand).
     
  5. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    I stand corrected once again; thank you for your insight, Mitlov!
     
  6. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Be wary of this term. I think it's outlived its usefulness personally. Basically, anything that doesn't meet the specific and personal criteria of the person commenting tends to get labeled "mcdojo."

    To be sure, there are plenty of schools that are overly commercialized, superficial, predatory, overpriced, and lacking in real content. But I think we toss that term around too readily these days, without thinking much about the specific things we're objecting to.

    Personally, I'd say that my first school fell neatly into this category. But I'm still hesitant to label it "mcdojang" (it was taekwondo, though that's neither here nor there). Often, these schools are giving students precisely what they're looking for. Not everyone is looking to be a great fighter. Some people are just looking for some martially flavoured socialization. And while that's not my bag, I'm not interested in condemning it either. As long as the school is honest with them about what they are and are NOT getting (which may not be the case often enough) and as long as people are honest with themselves about what they're capable of, then I don't have much trouble with it.


    Stuart
     
  7. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    Good advice to go by; thanks Stuart. :)
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    No worries. :)
     
  9. Topher

    Topher allo!

    To win tournaments would require talent/skill so I don't think this will be a typical feature of a McDojo.
     
  10. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    A valid point, though wouldn't such competition skills be trained towards point-gaining, anyway, rather than study of the art itself?

    Or am I getting into dangerous territory?
     
  11. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    mcdojo does not necessarily imply poor quality instruction or training. they often go hand in hand, but you can have either without the either, as it were.

    that five stripe strawberry-blond-belt might, in fact, be a legitimate badass.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Just so ya'll know, I love McDonalds. Ellington Darden, PhD., stated that the Big Mac is the most nutritious post-exercise meal available. So there ya go.

    McDojo:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKmUsVeKp1o"]YouTube[/ame]
     
  13. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    Y'know, after watching some crazy forms tonight at the new school I've been attending (new update in my other thread!), I might have to believe this. Or at least always be wary. ;)

    I seriously cracked up so hard! Oh Van, you make me smile. :D
     
  14. Kobudo-man

    Kobudo-man Valued Member

    Are you serious? I'd love to see this study, if you could tell me more. Sounds like a diet I could get behind.
     
  15. Tian-Tian

    Tian-Tian Awesome 15 minutes a day.

    McDonalds, Van? Maybe in the UK they're better than here. ;)
     
  16. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    McDojo and McDojangs are notorious for having a set of golden arches with a drive through where you can get your happy meal while you are getting your instructor ranking and certifications.. You can get a happy meal toy with each grade that your instructor ranking goes up..

    Just my experiences with Mcdojangs and Mcdojos in my martial arts travels..
     
  17. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Deadly. It's given a brief mention inthis book. Bill Wallace cites the study too in podcast #5 from this website. It's worth mentioning though that Darden was referring to folks who train hard 90-120 minutes 4-6 days a week.

    Hella yeah. McD's is great over here :)
     
  18. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    on my club forum (seiken ryu) soke wrote this. i feel it covers the points perfectly:

    "The problem is that without reasonable knowledge sometimes its possible to get duped, we gave a seminar in aiki jujitsu and a chap attended last year, he had no previous experience but he was able to start a club doing "aiki kickboxing" which has members!!! who think he's the best. I also know of a group who put Japanese characters into a hat to name their club, they are very respectful and bow to the club name at the start and end of each lesson oblivious to the fact that they bow to "wash below 40 degrees"
    The quality of the practice is the key, better to practice correctly once than a thousand times incorrectly.
    I've been to Japan to train and was told that karate is not a martial art merely part of a larger art!!! it is just a training method, one of many, for the art to be complete one has to study all aspects.
    Sometimes students don't like a particular part of the training so start up there own club minus the bit they don't like, this dilutes the knowledge but still gives a student very good at that bit, for the Karate, the world governing body says that the students have to be taught the three "k's" KATA, KUMITE and KIHON. Kata is always going to be the sticking point here so clubs start and just teach one kata that gets them over the hurdle of teaching kata. Look for clubs that teach a range of kata which develop the student, that's their purpose."

    proper shocking imo
     
  19. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    This isn't necessarily a bad thing if the instructor tells the students his/her intentions and they (the students) accept it.
     
  20. pauli

    pauli mr guillotine

    alternatively, it cuts out the garbage.
     

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