Defense against kicks.

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by KSW_123, Mar 3, 2006.

  1. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    This is a multi-pronged question. Feel free to answer any part.
    If you know Johk Bang Uh Sool, do you do the ones in the book? And if not then what are you doing?

    Johk Bang Uh Sool doesn't cover all the kicks we practice. Given that inside kick is in practically every form we do, I find it a little weird that that kick was not included in the defense set. What do you guys do for kicks not in the set?

    Some of the falls can be nasty when the kick is thrown at full speed. Does anybody have any good ideas to practice these safely?
     
  2. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    I'm assuming these are techniques that are covered after 1st dahn, because we haven't covered any defense against kicks other than the set up for some of the techniques. All of the kick defense I've learned was from tai-chi and from experimenting while sparring. I'd like to see them, though, considering the amount of kicks covered in Kuk Sool.
     
  3. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    Yeah they are 1st dahn, but don't let that stop you from chiming in.
     
  4. ember

    ember Valued Member

    I think we've done a few of these as sparring drills, usually without the take-down aspect.

    The day I stopped sparring last fall, instead we went through a bunch of techniques from a defense against kicking set, probably the one you mention. I don't really remember them yet, but at least they'll be familiar. Since I don't have book 3, I can't say whether they were the ones from the book or not. We took the takedowns *real* slow and easy.

    I think I remember that some of the techniques can be done with kicks that are different from what the book shows. Like for inside kick (since you mention it), if you can catch the leg, then you ought to be able to turn it, I think...

     
  5. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    In Longfist, the inside kick is taught to have been used to open a door for an offense in response to an attack using a weapon. Maybe the Chinese influence becomes a little more apparent through the implied application of that kick in the forms.

    One of the taichi chin na techniques is Bi Peng Di Tui. It's used against ahp cha ki. Essentially, when the right leg kick is executed the defender pivots to the right and uses the left forearm to scoop the kick upward. Using the right hand, cover the foot and press the toes downward while lifting the left forearm (left hand reinfocing the downard pressure on the toes by coiling around the lower leg to the top of the foot) on the tendons of the kickers calf. This movement is similar to what the elbow does in the joong guep sohn mohk soo #5 elbow lock. Step back to straighten the kickers leg and lift the toes as high as possible. If you step forward while pivoting to the right as you hook upward with the left forarm, apply the leg lock, pivot to the right and sweep the kickers supporting foot with a low bahl koom chi cha ki for a throw.

    I don't understand why kick defense and sweeping/throwing is excluded from post dahn sparring. I understand the liability aspect of the techniques, but a black belt should be able to break fall well enough to handle the physical strain of that type of sparring.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2006
  6. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    maybe, but what about the danger of someone sweeping an ankle or shin too hard? if it's done on the standing leg when a persons whole bodyweight is on that one joint you could see a lot of broken limbs/joints.

    back to the original question.

    to my mind, inside kick is used primarily as a defensive, blocking kick rather than an offesive strike. that said you can use the same defence as you would defending a roundhouse kick.

    :)
     
  7. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    I learned some Johk Bang Uh Sool when I was in Kuk Sool. I'm not sure if they were from the book or not, but my guess is they were.

    I learned techniques for a round kick and front kick. I think there were three each, depending on the range. I also learned a few spin kick things, but I can't remember if those were actually formal techniques or not.

    You can do pretty much anything with an inside kick that you can do with a round kick.

    However, the thing that I find works best, really, is just catching the kick, reeling the guy in, and punching him in the face once he gets close enough (which will result in a knock down). If you really want to be mean, drop an elbow hard on his shin or near the knee - although I've never actually tried that.

    If someone tries a spinning kick, most of the time, just ramming yourself into his body when his back is turned will be enough to knock him over.
     
  8. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    That technique sounds interesting. I'll think I'll try it out today. See if I can figure it out. Should be able too, your description is good.

    I'll spar with leg takedowns and sweeps but I want a successful technique to restart the round. Otherwise it turns into a crazy brawl. I have seen some pretty ugly things happen with sweeps though. One poor guy was flopping around on the floor like a fish out of water. He hit the back of his head on the floor after getting his leg caught.
     
  9. davefly76

    davefly76 Valued Member

    there are 15 johk bahng uh sool's. 3 each of front, roundhouse, side, hook and spin kick.

    the "ramming yourself into the body" is number 10, used against a hook kick but the same would apply for spin kick.

    :)
     
  10. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    My problem with the safety aspect of kick defense is finding a good surface. You can slam someone hard onto a crash mat without risk of injury, but kicking on crash mat is not easy. I find it easy to practice kick defense with the kicker going full bore, but the defender always has to slow down. This presents the problem that we don't really know how long it takes to drop someone and we don't get to experience all the problems that could occur. I'm also concerned about repetition. I want to be able to do each kick defense many times without my partner getting worn out.


    I was reading an interview with a Judo grandmaster and he was saying that he breaks his practice into two parts, lifting and throwing. The lifting part he does on a regular floor, and the throwing on a crash mat. He wasn't talking about kick defense but there should be a corallary.
     
  11. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    Simple, yet effective
     
  12. You Won Hwa

    You Won Hwa Valued Member

    Talking about spin kicks, I've noticed that some instructors like to see spin kicks in sparring, others claim the spin kicker will be warned and disqualified.

    Comments?
     
  13. You Won Hwa

    You Won Hwa Valued Member

    Like many first degree techniques, esp. Maek Chi Ki and Maek Cha Ki: with little force, and with a partner that knows the techniques and is anticipating the strike (or kick) and the fall.
     
  14. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    I am looking for a way to practice these techniques safely with force at full speed and many repetitions. The perfect floor for this I think would be a spring floor like gymnasts use with maybe a little bit of extra matting put on top. The trouble is I don't have that available to me. I have a crash mat. It cushions the fall fine, but it is not easy to kick while on a crash mat. It is also difficult to stay on the crash mat with these techniques.
     
  15. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Spin kicks are difficult for *anyone* to control. If a person cannot control a punch, that person should not attempt a spin kick in sparring.

    A street fight would be different. But sparring is not streetfighting, and should not be treated as such.

     

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