Defending against a knife attack

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by EdiSco, May 12, 2016.

  1. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    Man, this sort of thing happens to me all the time. Just the other day I was buying some Crisco at the local grocery store at about 2 am, and out of nowhere some knife wielding, cross dressing truckers just came at me. Luckily I was able to defend with the Crisco tub and deflect the majority of their attacks, although one of them got me with a thrust right in the right arm. After I was wounded I didn't have any other choice but to lather myself in the Crisco, the tub now punctured with holes. I held it above my head like when Link does when he finds an item in The Legend of Zelda, let my anger consume me to heat the Crisco, and just let the divine vegetable fat pour all over my body. After that, they didn't stand a chance. Their blades slid right off, and they couldn't grab me for anything. I was a slippery snake.

    I recommend always carrying a small baggy of Crisco on you, especially if there is a legitimate fear of a villain pursuing you for a magical stone or any other device. It can really get you out of a jam, and make you nearly impossible to restrain. However, if the other person has a hot knife you're kind of screwed. It cuts right through the Crisco, and in some cases will even cause it to boil and burn your skin. There's never a 100% sure chance in self defense situations unfortunately, even with Crisco.
     
  2. 8limbs38112

    8limbs38112 Valued Member

    The magic stone must be protected at all costs. Regardless of what my psychiatrist thinks.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Not really....there are three possible outcomes and you have a 30% chance of survival

    Take your weapon and make it empty hand your chancea drop to around 10-15%
     
  4. TwirlinMerlin

    TwirlinMerlin Valued Member

    Agreed. I myself prefer pure unadulterated beefalo butter for self defense purposes. It may not work 100% of the time, but it works 70% of the time every time. It also doubles as a delightful addition to pie crusts, and who doesn't like a top notch pie crust. Am I right? Eh? Eh?

    Pie. It's what's for dinner....

    Diabetes and heart disease. It's what's for desert...
     
  5. 8limbs38112

    8limbs38112 Valued Member

    ok I understand now. wow. Reality is harsh.
     
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    It is, but it also doesn't have a PR department

    Martial arts have a bad habit of selling sweet lies rather than bitter truth...it's one reason I have a relatively small student base as opposed to a local McDojo I know that packs them in be selling sunshine and unicorns

    However, the student I do get stay with me

    Knife awareness is a subject where there is so much taught by so few understanding it....look at any video for self defense and at some point you will see a blade disarm done

    I just shake my head

    Not to say it cannot happen or cannot be done ; I have actually done it as I have outlined before.....but equally as I have mentioned before I was incredibly stupid to have done so and it could have gone very, very wrong
     
  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    I have met three people who I believe have been in a fight against an attacker with a knife.

    One said that they did not know that they had been stabbed until after the fight.

    One [in military on civilian peace keeping] said he saw the knife and completely forgot all of his training, stuck both hands out to ward of the attack. got stabbed through one hand. the knife briefly stuck in his hand. he punched and kicked the assailant unconscious.

    One [in a pub] was stabbed once, saw the knife, made space, picked up a chair and hit the attacker.

    All three were injured. all three were lucky.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  8. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    Out of curiosity, and towards those who instruct, is defending against a knife really something people are asking on the regular about how to deal with? I feel like dealing with a knife wielding assailant is maybe 20% more likely than defending yourself against somebody who has a sword in today's modern age. I think it might be more of an issue to deal with in the UK, but in the States I would imagine people are more worried about having a gun pulled on them than a knife, and it seems a lot more likely too.
     
  9. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    Key stats for Scotland (where I live):

    Key statistics

    Violent crime decreased by 6% between 2013-14 and 2014-15 and is now at its lowest level for 41 years.

    Crimes recorded by the police in Scotland decreased from 270,397 in 2013-14 to 256,350 in 2014-15.

    Recorded crimes of handling an offensive weapon are the lowest in 31 years (since 1984). In the past year (2013-14 to 2014-15) there has been a 13% decrease in crimes of handling an offensive weapon, a fall of 67% since 2006-07.

    The number of young people under 19 convicted of handling an offensive weapon has also fallen by 82% from 811 in 2006/07 to 146 in 2014/15.

    There were 59 homicide victims in 2014-15, the lowest number of homicide victims recorded since records began. These are the lowest numbers of homicide cases and victims in 39 years.

    The average length of custodial sentences for carrying an offensive weapon, including knives, has decreased slightly from 374 days in 2013-14 to 370 days in 2014-15 , however this is still significantly higher than the average of 160 at 2006-07 and means that someone convicted of these offences will, if imprisoned, receive an average sentence of more than 1 year.

    The Scottish Crime and Justice Survey 2014/15 published on Tuesday 15 March 2016 found that the vast majority of people (85.5%) have experienced no crime.

    To support delivery of various prevention and early intervention programmes, the Scottish Government is funding and supporting the following:

    Source: http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Justice/policies/reducing-crime/reducing-violence
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Sadly yes it is

    People tend to ask for what they fear most, even though it is an exceptionally low frequency occurence. Many arts shamelessly market towards this too - If you ask me I tell you that your are hooped but I can extend your chances of survival by a bit....you ask the local Mcdojo/Dairy Kwoon and they say "yes we cover defense against knives" - SOLD!!!

    It's a sad state of affairs
     
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, it is relatively common in the UK. As an example, stabbings at the Notting Hill carnival are about as common as shootings at New Orleans Mardi Gras.

    Since disarmament in Northern Ireland it's been much harder for criminals to get guns in the UK (thanks Libya and the United States! :) ), and it's more common now that firearms are just for show because they don't know how to keep them operational and it's hard to get ammunition (though that is a bit easier now because of the dark web).

    Low level criminals and gang members here carry knives more than any other weapon.
     
  12. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    Unarmed against a knife - limb control and clinch, be stronger and more determined
    Armed - dunno, carrying a knife isn't my thing. Not just because of legality, but also because of the injury profile - you can bleed someone out, but they'll take a while to get there. And 'high lethality - slow effect' is almost the exact opposite of what you want.

    Of course that presumes you see the knife before you get cut, which is by no means a certainty
     
  13. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    I would not say it was regular, but it is not uncommon. I have lost students in the past when they have asked to be shown knife defenses and I have said that they are better off using the basic principles of fighting that we practice every session rather than specific knife defenses.
     
  14. BahadZubu

    BahadZubu Valued Member

    Sounds like quite a story. Would you mind sharing? Not being incredulous just genuinely curious. :)
     
  15. BahadZubu

    BahadZubu Valued Member

    Just a lot of truth in this post right here. Even the old masters in PI will say the flashy disarms are just that....something to catch the eye. Parlour tricks. Students always want to learn knife disarms but rarely do people want to put the work in to get better at weapon fighting and lets be honest it is also much more comforting to live in a fantasy world then to admit to yourself that there is no magical technique to make you The Deadly.
     
  16. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    No, never “fight” someone with a knife, but never “fight” anyone – knife or no knife – for that matter. You defend yourself if you have no other option, but you don’t “fight” – if that makes sense.

    Knife attacks are very complicated to deal with. In close range, you can’t grab the weapon itself the same way you would grab let’s say a gun to point its barrel away. The priority is to control the hand that holds it, prevent any hand switch and control the weapon at all cost. Yes, that means you also have to content with getting hit by the hand, but the knife remains the priority. That’s why you are going to have to grapple and a striking art alone (especially one that doesn’t teach appropriate blocks) is not going to cut it.

    Knife attacks come in two forms, static and dynamic. Static is for ex the knife being put on your throat while asking for your wallet. Someone looking to stab can do so without static threat so someone who does that most likely wants your wallet. Hand it over and let them go. Only if they physically threaten you or someone you’re with should you engage. A dynamic attack is any type of swing or stabbing motion coming to you. THAT is someone try to harm and there you have no choice but to engage unless you have an escape route and you and the ones you're with can run as well.

    Yes, you can learn knife defense techniques and work them in sparring but be aware that all you are doing is increase your poor odds a bit. Nothing ever is 100%, let alone when a bladed weapon is involved.

    Being bigger, faster and stronger ALWAYS helps. Just depends what you do with that athleticism.

    My $0.02
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  17. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This is a cut and paste from the much earlier post.........



    Funnily enough I covered this with my kali class on Friday. I was being exceptionally generous when I told them they had a 95% chance of failure unarmed against the blade.

    Without and equalizer (as Simon pointed out) you are instantly having an issue, and it is normally only lack of intent/ability on the part of the attacker that will save you.

    In my most significant knife encounter I was o/d buying groceries at Salford Tesco express (for anyone who knows this place the rest of the story will not be that suprising...). Anyway, scumbag comes in, grabs 48 cans of Stella and proceeds to walk out the door telling the guard to "go eff yourself ill kill you if you stop me".

    Now being stupid I went out after him - yes this was stupid - and challenged him. He dropped the lager and pulled a short blade (around 2"). Nothing too scary, but certainly deadly enough. Using some of the WORST verbal communication in the history of mankind ("put that down you little C or I will cave one side of your face in") I noticed he was exceptionally hesitant to actually engage me. His body language was staccato, he was splaying and making a very big deal of the fact he had a blade without actually doing anything with it.

    At this point and indeed at many before I could and should have walked away - the beer was recovered and he would simply have fled and would have easily been ID'd off CCTV

    As I said, S-T-U-P-I-D

    Anyway, I initiated by rushing and closing to his left hand side whilst hammer striking the arm (he held the knife in the right). He instantly swung the blade, I caught the arcing arm, bicep strike and locked it up after the knife fell. I told him he was under arrest, he was detained, yadda, yadda, yadda....

    Did I mention how stupid this incident was?

    Two things saved me; Luck and the fact that I used line familarity and footwork to close down his possible responses. The fact he was pretty clueless certainly did me a lot of favors too

    Would I do that again? Hell no....especially as they still made me pay for my oven chips!

    The above story is how it went right for me....I can see at least 20 ways it could have gone very wrong at any stage in the incident
     
  18. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Oh, my.
     
  19. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Standard Salford.
     
  20. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Indeed!

    S-T-U-P-I-D
     

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