Defend the pram!

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by komuso, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    Or for that matter any other stationary object.....

    Hi folks,

    now that the dust is starting to settle after the birth of my triplets I have a question to pose, and it is one that actually (to my surprise..) has a basis in reality.

    I have a very big three person pram. It comes with the territory, and weighs a ton, with its little load of 7 month olds at the the moment it weighs a bit more than 50kg, so fast escapes and movement are a bit hard. And while I thought that it would buy me a bit of immunity from trouble due to visibility and the general social taboos that accompany people with kids, this is not the case.

    While walking with my older daughter a few months ago we were tailed by the classic pair of skanky junkies who had seen my daughters little purse hanging from one arm, and probably quite rightly worked out that I couldnt really chase. A little bit of spatial reorganisation on my part solved the problem (older daughter and purse against fence, me outside) but I have been thinking about this ever since.

    Most of my understanding of self defence revolves around being able to escape after avoidance/strikes/unbalancing etc. This is fine if you are on your own, or with someone else that can run, but that isnt the case here. Situational awareness aside, what thoughts do folks have?

    JWT, this would make a very interesting variation to the drills you run, methinks,

  2. Osu komuso,

    First congrats on the triplets :)
    I think it is a mistake to expect a break from predators; they will use very one of your weaknesses, and not being very mobile is a weakness that is hard to hide.

    Don't be there is the best avoidance... there may be places or times you want to avoid. If it is not possible, remember nature's strategy has always been to ramp up the aggressively and territoriality of parents with child.

    There is a reason bear sows with pups are so fearsome... only the ignorant would confront one! You need to advertise that, by necessity, you cannot afford to be cute in a confrontation, that you will be ruthless and merciless...

    The good news is that to some extent, under the circumstances, you might be given more leeway for excessive use of force.

  3. komuso

    komuso Valued Member

    Thanks Old Kyokushin!

    it was a rare bit of optimism that saw me expecting a break from the bad folk of this world. I am, in general terms, one very, very cynical little guy. Perhaps I can chalk it up to the warm fuziness that comes as part of parenthood. Get the dont be there thing, where possible, though I can say that sleep deprivation this intense isn't great for the old decision making process.

    My current solution state is to perhaps be placing one of those large maglight torches in the thankfully very spacious bottom of the uber-pram, against the possibility of my needing to avail myself of the leeway you descibe.


    p.s. just saw your sig. Since 1963! You sir, must have shins of steel!
  4. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    If I were misfortunate enough to have children in the UK, I'd make damn sure I never left the house without some very plausible improvised weaponry on hand. Yes, I'm aware of the legal complications one faces based on the other thread discussing your draconian laws on self-defense, but I'd rather my loved ones be around to tell the story of their guardian's prison sentence, if fortune took that turn, then to be caught unprepared. The more plausible deniability, the better. A flashlight sounds like a great start, but I can own an assault rifle, so what do I know.

    I've had to deal with encounters where I was interviewed for violence by multiples in the US when I couldn't retreat because of loved ones, and what saved my butt was my familiarity with violence. When you're not scared for your own safety by a group of hooligans trying to intimidate you, it unnerves them quite a bit. Fortunately, I'm dumb enough where I don't generally need to fake this. I've heard people in the violence business refer to this as, "radiating menace." It just comes from prolonged exposure to it, I believe.
  5. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    Occasionally, very occasionally, a UK parent survives into middle age on the mean streets of UKland. How we do it is a mystery! ;)

    But seriously: Brisbane Australia isn't in the UK. We don't even have a penal colony there any more! ;)
  6. Yes, a large maglight, a D size battery, or a roll of quarters in a canvas bag, a tire iron (the pram has wheels, right? :D) an umbrella, a cane, a used pampers... many thinks scan come handy!

  7. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I only recall one occasion when I had a potential 'situation' while pushing a buggy. A teenage lad was standing at a bus stop blocking my path. Any normal person would have realised that they were in the way and moved, but he just stood there giving me a reallydirty look, for no good reason that I could see.

    My first instinct was to ram him with the buggy, but I was aware of how totally vulnerable my son was, so I just eyeballed the lad and said "excuse me" through gritted teeth. He moved and I continued on my way, but the episode left me feeling extremely angry. Anyone who tries to act in an intimidating way where children are involved deserves a good shoeing IMHO.
  8. finite monkey

    finite monkey Thought Criminal

    Well done OP on the triplets (and to Mrs Komuso also)

    I like the maglight idea,

    Some more ideas for you:

    Fit a wing mirror on the pram to aid situational awarness?

    Perhaps some sort of tether to prevent seperation from your precious cargo?

    An air horn to attract attention and de motivate attackers?

    This film has many pram defence strategies ;]

    [ame=""]Raising Arizona (1987) - Original Theatrical Trailer - YouTube[/ame]
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    What the hell are you on about?
    What do you think the UK is like? Mordor?
    Aside from some inner city hell-holes and certain estates/areas in most big cities (that anyone local knows not to visit) the UK is a pretty non-violent place.
    Just because we aren't allowed to (and more importantly don't need too) walk around with a weapon in every pocket doesn't mean we're the victims of crime every time we set foot out of the house.
  10. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    If I was thirty years younger I would have LOL'd at that! Instead, I laughed out loud in a mature fashion.

    I'm tempted to sig it. Very tempted.
  11. finite monkey

    finite monkey Thought Criminal

  12. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Coming from someone from Seattle - :jawdrop: I've seen Dark Angel dude. You guys have serious problems!

    But in all seriousness, where do you get your impressions of the UK from, because it sure as hell isn't from first hand experience. There are dodgy areas where the meek fear to tread, but every country has cesspits (Detroit, anyone?).
  13. [​IMG]

  14. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    American tourists. Can't take them anywhere.
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Nice flying side kick.
    At least UK idiots riot with style. :)
  16. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    Dammit, this is why I shouldn't post before bed. And also, why I should never get wet after midnight.
  17. John R. Gambit

    John R. Gambit The 'Rona Wrangler

    My post came out wrong, on many levels. I'm certain the UK is less dangerous than the US, actually. But the notion that you're punished for having to use an admitted improvised weapon in an extreme self-defense scenario boggles my mind. Anyway, didn't mean to derail the thread by overlooking that the OP is an Aussie. They're more civilized about handling their bludgeonings, as I've come to understand it.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  18. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    You can improv a weapon in a fight legally so long as its not an over the top reaction. Bricking someone in the face for swearing at you for instance. The trick here is not to be dumb enough to admit you carried what you used for protection which is why when my step dad ran security everyone he worked with bought big ass torches. Perfectly legal and they "used what was to hand" rather than carried a weapon. Pens instead of knives that sort of thing. The terribleness (its a word!) of uk self defence laws does seem quite overplayed.
  19. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    If you defend yourself with something that was not being carried as a weapon, then you're in the clear, but carrying anything with intent to use it as a weapon is illegal.

    You can be carrying a Katana from your Iaido class and use it to defend yourself legally, so long as the force you used can be justified.
  20. Hatamoto

    Hatamoto Beardy Man Kenobi Supporter

    Lone Wolf and Cub comes to mind :D

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