Defence lab misconceptions

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Whit, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    I'm just going to clear up a few things ive seen people saying about defence lab having either "done it once" or "seen some videos".

    I've trained it for about a year, feel free to rip me to pieces but it has works on more than one occasion for me.
    Now I'm not that good at writing so I will try to explain why things are done in the way they are.


    So onto things i've seen;

    Relies on that "arm thing head guard too much"
    "Nobody punches the body in their world"

    It's drilled into us pretty early into the training that you need to keep your head protected.
    Watch any street fighting video, I've even seen this when people with martial arts training get in street fights, people head hunt and they do it a lot.
    I think it's also the reality of the people that start fights now days if they hit you in the head and you go down odds are they are going to kick you and not stop.

    Relies on a lot of "arm hanging" or compliance.

    You could say the same of Krav or FMA. I think the trouble is people are confusing some of the videos that are drills with something else.

    There seems to be some strange misconception that defence lab students don't spar and I'v no idea where that comes from.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E61jnJe_1SI"]The Reality Of Knife Attack - Deane Lawler @ the A.I.M Academy 2011 - YouTube[/ame]
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANV9lM3u7w"]Shocking CCTV: Gang members attack foreign student - YouTube[/ame]

    These video's pretty much sums up the mentality of what we train for.
     
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    So since you started this thread....

    1) Is ''Defense lab'' a rebranding of Keysi Fighting Method? (do you know why it was rebranded?)
    2) What training does DL/KFM comprise of, (you meantion sparring? what rulesets etc)
    3) What does DL do that specifically focuses on Self defense (legal issues, less then lethal options etc)
    4) What proof do you offer that Defence Lab, fulfills its aim of self defence?
    (you mentioned its worked for you, care to expand?)

    Thanks for your time!
     
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    If you enjoy it, crack on.
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz4SJi4NMd8"]Andy Norman of DEFENCE LAB (Formally Keysi Fighting Method) MMA Ground & Pound Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

    The founder showing how to GNP, without Base, Posture, or Frames.

    If its SD why show how to GNP vs the full Guard?
     
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    double post sorry!
     
  6. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    1) Is ''Defense lab'' a rebranding of Keysi Fighting Method? (do you know why it was rebranded?)

    It's not so much a rebranding as it is an evolution of it, if you look at old and currently confusing new KFM by justo it still uses sweeping motions of the thinking man, there are a fair few reasons why Andy Norman and Justo split up but i think it was mostly due to business reasons.

    2) What training does DL/KFM comprise of, (you meantion sparring? what rulesets etc)
    Training usually consists of, ill go off what i did last sunday.
    10 minute introduction warm up
    10 minutues on body mechanics and shape mechanics, i noticed people says about the shapes, they are supposed to be used with body mechanics like how a boxer generates power.
    Focus on a drills , normally we start with a basic drill, it will start with jacket work, then transfer that onto pads, then onto light sparing with traditional gloves.
    We then add that drill into what we have already learned.
    Sparring rules normally are along the lines of punches anywhere are allowed, kicks are allowed (none to the head) as well as using the elbows for blocks and traps but not direct strikes to the face.
    Oh i forgot 2-1 drills we will run those quite often, usually with an aggressor and a "wingman" , with the wingman coming in from different angles and you having to turn strike, put one guy in front of the other whatever you have to do.
    3) What does DL do that specifically focuses on Self defense (legal issues, less then lethal options etc)
    I live in the UK the only option i have is less than lethal. The law is very much reinforced, we usually take 5 minutes out to talk about what to do when you need to talk to the police if you get in a fight , reasonable force ect ect.

    4) What proof do you offer that Defence Lab, fulfills its aim of self defence?
    Defence lab is trying to give an answer to attacks from multiple people, personally i think its doing it quite well its not the be all and end all but no system is.
    I think the way it stresses works quite well, we uses something called the 4 man box with a person on each point of the compass. I call it the Chav simulator. It's used to reinforce the covers and to learn to keep covered while striking if that makes sense?
     
  7. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    2) do you allow weapons, clinch, takedowns, groundwork? do you ever spar with heavier contact.
    3) Do you use any options that are not striking (i.e. potentially lethal)
     
  9. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    He also is using frames its just the old KFM way of doing it where you are in a neural thinking man.

    Funny you saying about base and posture because he actually trained BJJ with Rigan Machado.
     
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Defense Lab are using it so this explanation does not fly
     
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    He also trained extensively with Marc Mcfann, which is where I first met him
     
  12. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    As for why defence lab are using the video pffff heaven knows. I seriously think the marketing is like watching your Dad try to use a computer.

    2) do you allow weapons, clinch, takedowns, groundwork? do you ever spar with heavier contact.

    Yes to all, however see below in re-guards to weapons.

    3) Do you use any options that are not striking (i.e. potentially lethal)

    Stick and knife work are later in the system i think its covered later this yea, they want students to have a good grounding with striking throwing and getting off the ground before they throw that in.

    Yet again while is there if i pick up a stick and start using it like Kali in the UK the police will have a field day, heaven forbid if it was AAAAA KIIIIIIIIFFFFEEEE!!!

    We are also taught with knife work if a guy is gonna stab you you wont see the knife so its more about awareness. Bottle defence is a huge thing that just got intoduced,

    The attitude towards self defence in the UK is weird dude.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2016
  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I think we must be using different terminology,

    Frames - from closed guard, would be at least one hand (or 2 on bicep/armpits) on the sternum at all times to stop them sitting up or pulling down at will.

    Posture from closed guard would either be having the head directly above the hips (and so make yourself unpunchable in the head) or all the way down to the body, hanging out at the danger zone of 45 degrees (without double long frames) means its sub/sweep/standup city.

    and Base would be related to the above 2 points.
     
  14. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    I'll be honest fella i haven't been taught anything about fighting from that particular position so i dont have an answer to give you on why hes doing those things.
     
  15. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    I've yet to be in a street fight where we have both fallen to the ground and the other guy butt scooched up to me and got me in a mount.
     
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    No worries.

    Sorry if this is a dumb question, do you ever train ways to stop an attacker that dont involve striking them, or using a knife or kali stick? The ever present Drunk uncle at a Family barbecue situation?
     
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I have, and i've seen it loads too, its a bad place to be even with training, sitting on someones hips to punch them is a primal reaction, ever see kids play wrestling, they'll automatically use mount without ever being taught it.
     
  18. Whit

    Whit Valued Member

    Oh yea we have train like being the guy under.

    I mean having a situation where a guys legs are around my torso.
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5RaxEV9fx8"]The Three Most Critical Concepts of BJJ - YouTube[/ame]
    This is basically what i was taught those words mean.

    Generic drunk uncle has a ball bat again is get inside it and dont give space.

    I'll be honest the knife and stick training all comes later and its all based on Kali.
    Heck even the choke defence is from silat.

    It's funny you mention it because the way it was explained to me is that they have taken concepts and techniques that people do by instinct and worked with that if that makes sense?
     
  19. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Hi Whit

    Please take a moment to familiarise yourself with the TOS / forum rules to which there is a link at the top and bottom of every page. Profanity masked by the filter or masking profanity in posts yourself is not allowed here on MAP.

    Thanks

    John
     
  20. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I've thrown people to the ground and immediately mounted them from the side control I landed in.
     

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