defence against MT kicks

Your background is solid and I'm sure you are a very good coach--still not in Vunak's league, but solid--still, what I don't understand when I say there aren't counters to the knee check, you say you don't "agree with that mentality".

It's not a question of mentality, it's just that if I'm fast enough to check a committed kick, you can't take it back, and it gets checked. Same with a shin check: the guy checks you or doesn't.

You might be able to be faster than he is, or smarter, feint a kick, then kick him with another, but I'm asking for the counter to a kick check that Vunak is neglecting to teach...

 

So

You've trained with both fire cobra, and Vunak, and are in a position to make a judgement call on either of their abilities as a coach?



What a joke. Come back and post when you get out of middle school.

 

Yeah, you have to train with each and every coach before you can compare their CVs. It's like if an employer had to hire people by first having to hire them. But I see you couldn't answer the main question either, validating Vunak's training. Furthermore, has Fire Cobra trained with Vunak? No. Yet, he can criticize him, and I can't criticize Fire Cobra.

If I'm in Middle School, you're in special ed.

 

Thanks for the compliment Flashlock.

Please tell me what league is Mr Vunak in?.

I havent trained with Paul Vunak and i wouldnt want to,as ive stated in earlier posts i just dont like his methods,i have seen enough of his vids/dvds to make a educated decision on this.

Over the years i have watched people like Mr Vunak come up through the ranks so ive seen their training progressions(great marketing material)
at one point in time Mr V was classed as a world class trapper! i mean whats that? where are the trapping competitions to be world class in?.

I have nothing personal against Mr Vunak,im only stating again i dont like his material much,im sure others do and thats great for them.

Back to the knee check,i didnt say there was a counter to it(and im not saying there isnt) my post was about how i like to coach with attack, defence, and counter,thats why i said sorry for taking the thread of track.

Now how about running past us your background Flashlock?

 

You're welcome.

You should know, you're so near it.

You stated you didn't like his methods in reference to how he teaches the kick check. I asked how you would teach it in the method you prefer... you don't have an answer.

Because Dan Inosanto says so.

Let me guess... don't like his methods either?

You said you don't like his material much because he doesn't teach an attack, a defense, and a counter based on the knee check. However, if you did watch any dvd of Vunak's you'll see he teaches attack, defense, and counter-attack (not necessarily in that order).

You leached onto the fact that he didn't show a counter to a knee check, then pretended that he never teaches counters--which is completely inaccurante. In fact, his entire system is based on counter attacks, from straightblasts after elbow crushes, to traps and backhand counters, to ground fighting drills. So, I don't understand where you criticism is coming from at all.

Vunak teaches attacks, counter attacks, defense, etc., too. There's not a counter to the knee check, you don't have one and Vunak doesn't have one--it is proposterous to imply that Vunak doesn't have counter attacking training because there's no defense to a good knee check with a committed kick.

Done it a million times becuase that's the last refuge for the debater who can't win an argument: attack the opponent, not the argument. My background, no matter how weak or great it is, will not change Vunak's system, how knee checks work, or how you don't seem to make much sense.

 

Flashlock

I was under the impression that PV teaches to attack attack attack and finish a confrontation as quick as possible,i have never seen him teach counters to a straigh blast ,a head butt,elbow srtikes etc,perhaps ive viewed tapes these havent beeb covered on,if he does teach defence/counters to the attacks he teaches then i stand corrected no problem.

Actually i have attended at least half a dozen Dan Inosanto seminars and find him(as everyone else does) a very knowlegable Martial artist,i still dont understand the "world class" trapper bit though.

I wasnt attacking you when asking for your background,just be nice to see what knowledge base and experience you have to base your observasions on,sorry if you have mentioned you background earlier i must of missed it.

And like it or not Flashlock,the knee point destruction(as painfull as it could be) and the elbow point destruction are low percentage moves

 

From my understanding, destructions are counters to strikes, and all those wing chung traps and backfists are strikes and counter strikes. Who practices headbutt counters? Just be careful if you're in range to throw elbows, knees and headbutts, becuase your opponent can too (unless he's just been straightblasted or had a weapon destroyed, which is ideal).

I never used the term world class trapper--so I don't really care about defending it. Is he good at trapping? I think so, he trained long enough with Inosanto. Did he call himself "world class trapper" or did one of his students? Anyway, who cares.

I constantly get attacked because people don't like what I've done and don't think I have a right to say anything--when they themselves are probably horrible martial artists with the IQs of egg timers.

I'm sorry I'm so defensive, but I constantly get attacked on this forum because of my background and the fact that I state bold opinions; I don't believe in acting like a little timid sheep to impress a bunch of... whatever these people are.

Ten years ago I was an assistant instructor in self-defnse-based TKD. We mixed in a lot of JKD, aikido, Kali, praying mantis KF, and even ninjutsu. My teacher left our TKD organization when they wanted to shift to be more sports oriented... he asked me to join him, and I did.

Then I got two art degrees, moved around a lot, and it was hard to stick to one school. Since then, after settling in Melbourne Australia from Chicago, I had the opportunity to train with a professional boxer (former bronze Olympian) one on one, twice a week for 6 months. On the weekends I worked out with my brother in law in a park--he did the Vunak system for 5 years and gave me a great introduction to it; he moved to Spain, and I haven't had a chance to practice the system like I want.

I took up BJJ about 5 months ago and am doing great. The bluebelt who teaches me is not allowed to give grades, but if he could, he said he'd give me two stripes (next week I plan to go to the regular class and hopefully get graded).

Yeah, but if the destruction fails at least you (hopefully) blocked the shot. Doesnt' really matter what you use--you're going to get hit with sumpn.

Fire Cobra, sorry I came at you like an attack dog, but just look at this thread. I come and offer a simple alternative to consider, and look how this nice gentleman and fine examples of their arts jumped on me. I've tried to be reasonable and given people the benefit of the doubt in the past, and was rewarded with more spit in the face.

To wrap this crap up: If you're going to be doing a lot of muy thai, yes, invest the time and training in doing the shin check. It is more tested and more reliable than any other check.

If you want to experiment with another option for whatever reason, give the knee check a try, preferably with a PFS instructor.

OK?

 

world class trapper?
Thank god for that. I thought you said something else.

Are 'checks' the same as 'jams'?

 

HAHAHAHA....

my, my, my how fast Flashlock dodges when questioned about his background. Not surprising given that he's waffled all around in this thread with his worship of Paul Vunak... but not ever tried Vunaks much vaunted theories himself in a Muay Thai bout or against a credible nak muay. When he does post some of his background... no big surprises either... Muay Thai isn't on the list.

What a total clown.

 

Oh, and 'destructions'? My god. I thought we laid them to rest when we burned goatnipples out from under his bridge.

 

i did a low kick to my neighbor when sparring.. he just turned his knees to my shin and i was out for a week..

 

I do Shotokan not MT - but in some ways the roundhouse is similar, majorly being that in Shotokan we are encouraged to twist the hips right round , kind of "popping" them into the next swivel position to gain power and to chop downward with the kick - and swivelling the supporting foot quite considerably. In a lot of other styles the roundhouse seems a bit more diagonally upwards (I know they have this as a rib kick in MT but nevertheless you know what I mean....).

Bearing that in mind, my opinion is that the only really effective way of blocking a crushing MT kick with all the hip & body swivel force behind it is probably using your shin. We don't really condition the shins in Karate, but then again, I'm not planning on fight any MT fighters anytime soon. I personally probably wouldn't be able to block one and get a whack on the leg. I would probably stray towards stepping away from it, but they are too fast I reckon. If I HAD to block with my leg I might block with the muscle instead of the shin - attempting to tense and brace the muscle against it - the muscle would get knackered probably but at least I wouldn't have a cracked shinbone, which I would fully expect being unconditioned against a conditioned shin.

As for a higher MT kick - step away and block using BOTH arms maybe or something. I wouldn't take one on with one arm certainly. To be honest judging from the power I see in MT kicks I wouldn't fancy my chances. I would also maybe try and catch a leg as soon as possible.

The rib kicks - try and get an elbow in the way. Again wouldn't fancy the chances.

The simple fact of the matter is that MT kicks are so powerful that only other MT guys really know how to deal with them.

That's my opinion anyway.

 

Aim it higher/lower next time?