defence against MT kicks

yes yes Flashlock... yes yes... it's alright... don't get worked up.... breathe deep.... we've seen your idea of what will work against MT roundhouses... LOL!

Well done.

 

Thanks, buddy!

 

I finally ran across a clip of what I am talking about (checking kicks with your knee).

Click on the link, then select the video sample "pv16".

All low kicks are intercepted with the knee, not the shin.

http://www.pfsvideo.com/preview.htm

 

All fine and well in a half speed training scenario where you're not actually in danger of getting your head taken off. In a real fight where you comfort zone is entirely different... it's a whole other creature all together.

1) They were hardly even kicks

2) They were no where near thrown with the speed or force of a real kick

3) They weren't even thrown to the proper target from the proper range

But hey don't take anyones word for it... head down to an MT gym and explain to the instructor that your willing to let his boys take shots at you... and you're going to only check them with your knees. Surely if it can be accomplished in a video clip on the web then in reality should only be a small step right?

I'd be curious to see the results.

Looks like a fun training session for theory but they really could take it a step further and throw on some basic shin pads and see just how many kicks a person throwing with intent and commitment lands... I guarantee you it's going to be much harder to check with your knee.

 

Dont block kicks like that guys

 

It doesn't prove anything--it's an example of an alternative way to check roundhouse kicks; if you don't want to consider it, stick to the shin check.

The reason the kicks aren't going 100% is because the guys sparring know how much pain those checks cause. If you practice this way--as I have done--you soon learn, just for this drill, that you have to hold back on your kicks.

Shin guards will do you no good, that knee point hits right through.

 

Flashlock - I can see why you may be disinclined to agree with the hardocre Muay thai guys on this subject. So, i would like to offer a little perspective as somebody who has trained in PFS. Paul Vunak teaches some really amazing stuff, and he does know what he is talking about. However, on this issuea, you have misinterpretted the discourse. Blocking with the point of the knee may, from a conditioning aspect, be better than using the shin, if one has not trained in Muay Thai. however, what you gain in personal pain reduction, you sacrifice in accuracy. The knee is indeed very painful when struck against the shin. however, it lacks the surface area necessary to be applicable in a 'real fight'.

With the course of adrenal dump, the body dislikes fine motor skills. Whilst not necessarily being a fine motor skill, the kneeing block is more fine than it is gross. This is a big problem for its applicability, as we are instinctively programmed to use the most rudimentary motions. Here, the Thai style block is champion, as it is an instinctive action. Also, it is quicker. If somebody throws a Thai roundhouse at full speed, with the affects of adrenal dump, you might not only miss the shin, but get hit before you can even get that far. This is the chief problem with the block.

If yu want to spend hopurs drilling and perfecting a block that you deem worthy due to the fact that it requires little shin coditioning, the time would probably be better spent conditioning your shins and perfecting the Thai style block.

Emily

 

Very good points. What we have is me offering an alternative to the classic shin check, and a few people attacking it without ever trying it. You do not fall into that category.

In my experiments, I didn't miss checking the kick, but I often wasn't able to cause pain because I was too slow and the kick impacted on the side of my calf, or some other flat area. Luckily, my knee wasn't hurt.

The shin check is indeed the champion, but all I'm suggesting is, as a possible alternative, people can try this knee check, which, it seems, a lot of MA have never seen before.

I'm going to continue presenting unpopular or unknown methods, and leave it up to people to try for themselves. Those that dismiss things like this out of hand, again, not you, Empress, simply expose themselves as a bit small minded.

I love your comment that in all the time it takes getting this knee check down, you could have just conditioned your shins! Then again, the shin check will not cause as much pain on the kicker as the knee check. You make a good case though for doing the shin check.

Again, all I can suggest is try both methods. If you're doing a lot of muy thai stuff, just condition your shins. If not, try the knee check and see if you can pull it off vs kicks at full speed and power...

 

No one attacked anything... people are giving you good reasons why it's not a very likely technique to work against a full speed, full power Muay Thai roundhouse.

Much of this is based on having been through exactly the technique you/Vunak are talking about.

Blocking an incoming rounhouse kick with a knee isn't anything new. It's just that a large majority of people (the Muay Thai community/practitioners) found that the margin for error in trying check full speed, full power roundhouse kicks with just the point of the knee doesn't yield very good results.

You're essentially trying to block a very large object coming at you at great speed and on short notice with a very small area of knee. It's generally been found to not be the best way to go about defense.

You can practice them all you want a slow speed, thrown half heartedly (like in the vid) but it's not going to be representative of how they're coming at you in the real world.

This is why in Muay Thai people slap on the shin pads and practice at pretty close to full speed (or at least far closer than shown in the vid) with roundhouses. It's not a complete shin killer because you have pads on and because your shins are conditioned.

It's far more beneficial to train defending roundhouses with speed that is closer to real life than what he shows in the vid.

 

I don't care if you shin check, knee check, or ass check.

It's a very good example, you just don't have the MA culture to understand what you are seeing.

The context of the clip is as a demo at a JKD seminar. I couldn't find better (better as in more alive) examples, this was the closest I could get. A million friggin' appologies. Only a moron with no imagination would not be able to see the potential from the simple clip.

Another reason they are holding back the kicks, since you can't seem to get it, is that when someone checks your shin with a knee, it causes excruciating pain. Why don't you go out with your boyfriend or whoever the heck is unfortunate enough to have to train with you, and try it before you heap all this unwarrented criticism my way, OK, Slip Junior.

You guys are fascists. You want to crush ideas and methods out of hand without even trying them. At least Empress knew what she was talking about, and acknowledged you could make this technique work (but it would take, in her opinion, a lot of practice).

Try it or don't--but please, if you have never tried it: shut the hell up!

 

lol. Right once again Flashlock is bringing white-beard wisdom that no one else is able to understand except for himself.

I swear to God - the good Lord must have designed the rolleyes smiley just to deal with your posts.

Sigh. So for all that possiblity... this clip was the best you could manage? Seriously - if this technique is so great why are there not more vids of it being employed? Why have the nak muays of the world not lept at the chance to employ a technique that would save from all the time wasted shin conditioning? Why not? It'd certainly be legal under the ruleset. Oh wait that's right... we need to wait for our beards to grow white like yours so we can hand down nonsensical proclamations from on high about techniques we've never actually used in the ring - just like you.

Calling people morons doesn't make your theory any better.

Wow. So rich... checking leg kicks doesn't always cause excrutiating pain... that's what the adrenalin is for.

Seriously... have you ever trained MT in your life?!?! Why are you having so much trouble understanding that throwing and receiving kicks at pretty close to full speed does NOT cause excruciating pain. If you'd actually trained MT for any significant amount of time you'd understand this and not being working overtime to convert everyone to your nonsensical theory.

You're a sad little man. Very sad.
You've gone on the attack after posting sillyness and being called on it. And now the best you can manage is to call people morons and fascists and whining that no one has the martial arts depth to understand your silly theory. Oh wait... now you want people to 'shut the hell up'.

The method is not something revolutionary. Not by any means. Not something Vunak invented as much as it something everyone else realized doesn't really work in reality. It's something most novice Muay Thai practitioners go through early on. Then they realize it's a whole lot easier to eat a kick like that and decide that checking with the shin is far more effective as it offers a wider area to check a roundhouse with. A point which you repeatedly dodged responding to.

The reason you liked Empress Akasha's take on things (which in essence is exactly what just about everyone else has said) is that she was nice enough to candy-coat her post so as to make them nice and sugary for your silly ass to swallow... your throat is too sore from the rest of the bitter jagged pills you end up swallowing here at MAP, having your foot crammed in your gob up to your knee and God only knows what else.

Jeez loueez! :bang:

 

As an outsider from this discussion...and a silent fan of Slips continual and hilarious ability to cut down noobs....and to give flash some due credit where it may be deserved...is it possible that you yourself Flash can grab a camera, borrow a camera, steal a camera*, and demonstrate this technique against a decent muay thai kick...because if your certain of your ability this will settle the argument...and if your wrong at least we'll get a laugh at you being hurt#


*Please note Effejy does not endorse stealing...unless it results in hilarity being provided for youtube.

 

I think you've seen enough to go out and experiment with the technique yourself. One 15 minutes session will teach you more than watching an hour of clips, especially by a highly unqualified demonstrator (me).

Now, what you guys have taught me, amid other things, is that the shin check works 100% of the time. Man, I didn't realize that!

Now, part of what you also have to understand is that these knee checks are part of Vunak's entire system. That means in order for you to intercept with the knee and have the time to do so, your distancing has to be JDK style, not Muy Thai sporting style, where you stand toe to toe exchanging blows.

In Vunak's theory, you stand much farther away than you would to exchange blows, forcing your opponent to launch attacks that are a little too far to be thrown. I think Vunak mentions this in another one of the clips on the cite I directed everyone to, that you use a shuffle step or switch kick to close the distance and make your own strikes.

So, it's not just about substituting your knee for the shin--there's a little more tied up in it, namely distancing and timing. Again, don't believe me, and don't believe anyone who disagrees with me. If you're interested in kick checks, you need to try it yourself, ideally with a PFS instructor.

 

I first learnt that method of checking low kicks in 1983,it is painful on the shin if caught correctly,but it is a low percentage move as most people have already said.

If you guna use the knee then put it on the foot or into the thigh of the opponent,these are Muay Thai methods of destructing kicks that do work most of the time

 

Hm! Interesting. I'll try it.

Thanks.

 

You called my posting the clip "daft" and that my point failed because the video clip was not as alive as you wanted.

Respect me a little, and I'll respect you a little.

 

Uh...this might only work a few times per match. If you see a low kick coming, you know you can avoid it by jumping. You also know that you'll probably get messed up if you jump. Solution, Jump-Switch-Roundhouse Kick. If your left side is forward, you jump, avoiding the kick, move your left side back, and kick with your right leg. This has the added effect of cracking the guy.