defence against MT kicks

Hi, I've been wondering what would be best for me to work on in defending myself against muay thai low kicks?

Reason is there a few Muay Thai guys in my BJJ school (and my instructor said they were good, and their BJJ is pretty good for just starting) and eventually my BJJ school will be a BJJ/MMA school. IM planning to join a boxing gym until my school moves and adds some striking arts to it. Plus im not that flexible in the legs and thought boxing would suit me better. So i want to try and get a early start on striking training to keep up with these dudes lol.

Conditioning my shins i heard would be good for kicking and blocking low kicks but what drills/routines should i do if any? Appreciate any other advice/help

just incase anyone cares i have only about 1 1/2 years or so in kempo karate, and 3 months of BJJ training.

Thanks

 

The best thing you can do it to train in MT. That your legs are not flexible isn't an excuse. You will gain flexibility in MT. Not that boxing isn't good... it is... but it's not going to help you check incoming low kicks.

Conditioning your shins with repeated workouts on the heavy bag are great. Start out with:

3X3's

eg. kick the bag once and back to your stance, kick the bag twice in rapid succession and back to your stance, kick the bag three times in rapid sucession and back to your bag.

work these until you can get to 10X10's... trust me... it's going to take a while. This drill should run for 3 mintues. You should be going at a good clip for the entire drill...

This drill is as much about muscular endurance and good mechanics as it is about power. So you really need to work all three. If you can't last a full three minutes - and I'm sure if you don't come from an MT background you can't - start out with 2X2's until you have the best 2X2's in your gym.

You are by and large programming your central nervous system to respond without having to think...

Once you get the basic kick down... you then will want to do 3X3's with a leg check involved:

check incoming kick left lead leg (imaginary because your at the heavy bag) and then fire off you 1X1 or 2X2 or 3X3 with your left lead leg. The left lead leg will always take a bit more of the brunt of it all... simply because it's the nearest target for the person facing you... so get used to checking kicks on your front lead leg.

Anyhow... before I get way ahead of myself... you're going to need some MT instruction at some point simply to get the proper kicking technique down.

 

Thanks for that info Slip, Ima start using that for my bagdrills. Question is how long will I last, hmmm.

 

hahah... yeah man it's a killer... 10X10's are a dream only for me... at least for a duration of 3 minutes if I'm throwing them with power/speed/accuracy. :cry: For the last couple of months my coach has been grinding us down with several rounds of 5X5's. Nightmarish.

This is one the drills best done with someone standing on your neck... barking at your to watch your form, get your knee up... keep your guard up etc. But they pay off.

 

Ya ima definatly replace replace these with the standard minute drills. Do you think these 3x3s will compliment punchout drills for the hands?

 

Yeah we use them in conjunction with punchouts... I don't do a whole lot of punchouts these days... I've been hooked on a fast/slow's for a while...

example:

take a three minute round...
start out with "slow" - that is... at your own pace... choosing the shots you want... working around the bag... feints, punches of any kind, knee's, kicks of anykind... for 30 seconds... but you must keep moving... no stationary targets... you must move around the bag.

after 30 seconds... I yell 'fast'
fast = continuous jab and right cross... the classic 1,2 punch. As fast as you can at head high level... bringing your guard back everytime... turning the hips... turning the heels outs... form proper fast speed punching... continuous... for 30 seconds...

then I yell slow... and right back to picking your shots... moving around the bag... setting the shots up... firing them off and moving off the line... again for 30 seconds...

then I yell fast again... and then slow again... you get the idea... it alternates the 3 minute round between intense, sustained frenzied punching and more chosen, carefully placed shots of all kinds.

I've found that this really mimics most fights. In terms of the stamina used it's primarily anaerobic just like most fights... it works very well in conjunction with the 3X3's or 5X5's. I ran a bunch of the rugby boys through this routine last night and had them crying like little girls... LOL!... I felt like a drill sargent... yelling at the top of my lungs and all up in their face... had them knocking out sets of pushups in between rounds... hahah... I even somehow drifted towards a southern accent while yelling at them.

Give it a shot bro and let me know what you think.

 

Good stuff, I'ma have to pick your brain more often. I'll be starting MT in 2-3 months so that's what I'm trying to get in shape for. I have a 140lb heavybag hung up on a tree outside and try to punch/kick it whnever I get a chance. The info you gave me on the slow/fast drills will definatly help my conditioning.

Thanks alot.

 

Yeah no worries bro... there are a ton more drills... I should compile a list... you'd dig them all. Everyone an asskicker.

Let us know how the MT goes.... you'll become as obsessed as I am.

 

There's only one problem, my MT technique stinks, and im worried that the mroe I drill stuff on the heavy bag the more I compund the bad habits that'll be even harder to get rid off once I start training MT.

On the other hand I want as much SSP as possible before starting...

 

Back to the original question...I thought the best defence vs MT low kicks is to use the shin block?

Edit: Is there any other defence against them?

 

Good advice from Slip as usual,I like the fast/ slow work to.

There are 4 main ways to go against any technique(including the low kick)the first way is to move your feet out of the way so the attack misses your body completely.

The second way is to evade the attack by moving the intended area of attack away from the attack,eg if opponent uses a right low kick then step your left leg back.

The third way is to block the attack,ie against the low kick lift the leg pull foot up to tighten muscles around the shin bone(added protection) turn the leg out a little and tuck the heel under the hamstring a little(so the knee/top of shin is used to block).

The fourth way and the most advanced and number 1 in my book when possible is to anticipate and intercept the attack,ie against the low kick use a push kick.

All 4 ways have their pros and cons and in a 5 roundmatch you will probably need to use them all(depending on opponent).

Also you can use them at different points in the fight and in different parts of the ring,eg if opponent is tired or hurt why move away when he attacks? instead block strong and attack straight back to finish the fight

 

:topic:
I gave the 2x2s a try and boy did they kick my ass. Looking back I didnt really do that much but thats still 180 kicks... sure doesnt feel like it though.

This is what I did:

2x2s

2x2s
2x2s x10 L
2x2s x10 R
rest60s
x3

Doesnt look like much, but thats enough for me for now. Since my thumb's still ****ed up I'll skip the fast/slows and just work on 2x2s and maybe the odd 3x3 here and there.

:topic:

I'll hold you to it. Ima make a thread about sport specific conditioning for MT and Boxing, It's gonna be in the cardio section...

Sorry for the hikjack OP.

 

Instead of the shin block, you can point your knee at the in-coming leg (pointing your knee like a spot-light on the opponent's shin). Can you hurt your knee? Yep. Paul Vunak says 1 in 20--but it's a shortcut answer if you dont' want to train (your shins) in MT.

I've also found that against these MT round houses, you sometimes get a chance to stop-hit it while the opponent is chambering. Basically, the instant he starts to raise that leg, just kick it (you can catch it just as it extends around, knock it right out of the air).

 

wow Thanks for all the info everyone! And yes im going to be getting some muay thai training as soon as my school moves and has the instructors there. But for now i want to try and get some boxing training and prepare for Muay thai. Ill try out these drills and techniques when i get a chance. Thanks again : )

 

Slip you need to empty your mailbox nub, here's what I tried to pm you:

 

ok im feeling dumb right now. I was reading it kinda fast since i was on work break. Whats the 2x2 or 3x3 stand for?? To me that means 2 sets of 2 reps or 3 sets of 3 reps. And i got confused when you said you hit the bag 180 times using 2x2. can anyone please explain? forgive my stupidity lol

 

I second that emotion.

3x3 I *think* refers to three sets of kicks building progressively up to three kicks per set?

1 = 1 kick
2 = 2 kicks
3 = 3 kicks
Total = 6 kicks for one "rep"?

Then what?
Back to 1 kick again?
Down to two kicks?

It sounds a *bit* like pyramiding. I'm doing a bag workout from Iain Abernethy regularly and that includes a minute round of pyramiding punches.

Jab
Jab/Cross
Jab/Cross/Hook
Jab/Cross/Hook/Cross
Jab/Cross/Hook
Jab/Cross
Jab
Repeat

Is that similar thing?

 

I knew we'd get you sooner or later

I'd also be interested in yer drills list.

edit

oh, OP - it is a well known fact that the only effective defense for a MT round kick is a ninja eye poke.

I generally employ one of 4 options:

teep with shin - hurts like hell and I hate it.

catch with kneecap - hurts much less to me than teeping, but I'm an old man. Shrug.

eat the kick and count on them to drop their hand so you can catch them with a cross...or eat the kick and immediately return with a kick. Tough man contest

push kick right into the hip. Gotta be quick with this one.

mostly I eat the kicks and curse under my breath. Sometimes out loud. Don't show pain, it gets 'em excited.

/edit

 

Yep that's it.

I usually go back down to one. If I'm going to add more kicks to the progression I'd rather it be on the way of working up to 10X10's.

But really it's open to interpretation... I don't think there are any hard fast rules other than you need to have someone on your ass to pick up the pace and keep using good form... speed... and power.

 

Sorry... but this is a spectacularly good way to get clobbered.
You're effectively cutting down the area that you're checking a kick with by a massive amount... you've now (according to your technique) got to accurately check their incoming roundhouse with just your knee?!?

lol...

It's all fine and well what Paul Vunak says... but I don't think he was ever a competitive MT fighter.

I hate to say it... but try that technique and you're about to be clobbered royally. Given the number of kicks thrown in a single round - the first time your opponent see's that you're trying to pull that off.. he does one of two things... avoids your knee and nails you... not all that hard... in fact it's such a smaller target to avoid than your entire shin it's a piece of ****.... or two he sets you up and then sweeps you and you end crashing to canvas as he chops your weighted leg out from under you.

Sorry but you lost me... generally speaking there is no chamber in the MT roundhouse. It's not the same as a karate or TKD style kick. We don't chamber our kicks.

Can you post a link to any vid clips of this technique your talking about?

I've never heard of such a thing.

What art does that sort of technique come from?