So, the style of karate that I practice doesn't tend to use those big, powerful shin kicks that Muay thai and kyokushinkaikan karate are famous for, but every so often you clash shins with someone or take an elbow in the shin when someone blocks a round kick. I tend to find that any heavy impact on the shin and I get a dead leg - I can't feel the leg at all below the knee, which can be bad for mobility! Just out of curiosity, do those of you who do whack each other in the shins on a regular basis find that conditioning reduces the extent to which this happens, or do you just get better at dealing with it and thinking "I can't feel my leg, oh well, better just assume it's still there and carry on!"?
You need to do a lot of specific conditioning to get used to it. It remains my least favourite part of Muay Thai training.
yeah, it basically means you're not conditioned enough for the intensity of the impact. squats and heavy bag, i'd say (relaxed roundhouses, gradually tightening up your technique as you get used to kicking with the shin,and then gradually increasing the intensity of the kicks. the kicks themselves aren't really any different to ball of the foot or instep kicks, just closer in and maybe with a bit more follow-through)
I've been wondering something similar for a while. I have basically no problem with shin impacts anymore, but I'm not sure if I'm feeling it less or if I'm just used to it. It still hurts, but the hurt doesn't effect me much. Well, I killed the nerves on one part of my right shin completely, so that one doesn't hurt, but that's a different issue altogether.
Ouch, bone on bone is for hard core fighters that condition for those hits. Mostly it is soft weapon to hard target and hard weapon to soft target. So pick your targets carefully (e.g. don't kick where their knee or elbows might intercept you a high percentage of the time). Anyway, it isn't always possible to avoid bone-on-bone hits. Apply some good Dit Da Jow (rubbing away from the heart) to the area. Use a roller on your shins to toughen them up when it does not hurt to do so. By the way, where on the shin is the impact? I'm curious because only the end of the shin (end near the ankle) is for striking, but it is possible to use the shin all the way to the knee for defensive purposes given the right context. Have you tried changing foot position to see if it makes a difference? If you point the foot down (toes down) you will see that the front of the knee cap is tightened but the lower leg can whip very quickly. When you point the foot up (toes up), you see that the tension is in the toes/ball of foot and the lower part of the shin (but the knee cap is loose). Here is the difference with kicking. With the Muay Thai round kick, it is like a baseball bat... you lead with the knee to drive the hips forward for power, but the lower leg moves with the knee so that when the knee passes the plane of the target, the shin hits the target (same as in baseball when your hands pass the plane of the ball, the bat hits the ball). For the shin to hit with the knee driving forward, the foot is pointed down (toes down). With a karate roundhouse or front kick, the knee goes beyond the plane of the target, then the knee moves back in the opposite direction at which point the ball of the foot hits the target. For the knee to drive back in the opposite direction as the kick, the foot is pointed up (toes up). To avoid bone on bone hits, the timing of the different kicks should be taken into account. If you are kicking like Muay Thai round kick, then timing is lead with knee and when knee passes plane of target, shin hits. With Karate round kick, lead with knee and when knee moves in opposite direction as kick, the ball of the foot hits. IME, it is usually when the timing of the kicks is messed up that you get those bone on bone hits. IMHO.
"Use a roller on your shins to toughen them up when it does not hurt to do so." that doesn't affect bone density, thus won't do anything for actual conditioning. it'll also only affect surface nerves. if his entire leg went numb, it's because the entire leg is affected, including deep nerves. "With Karate round kick, lead with knee and when knee moves in opposite direction as kick, the ball of the foot hits." nope, that just means you're effectively pulling your kick and have broken your kinetic chain. knee keeps going all the way through until the impact is done, no difference whether it's a shin, ball of foot or instep kick. anything else and you're just losing power.
Roller on shin is a quite established method for conditioning the shin. It is only one part of larger picture, but it is generally considered an important part. I'll have to disagree with you here FoD and go with my Muay Thai background and teachers on this one. Got to disagree with you again FoD. The ball of foot accelerates towards the target the entire time, therefore the kinetic chain is not broken. The knee is acting as a piston and a hinge on a karate front kick and karate round kick. If the knee does not move back in the opposite direction then you are only using the knee as a hinge, which means the knee is not adding as much power to your kick. When the knee is used as a piston, you get power from torque created from coordinated movement in opposite directions, like cracking a whip. The knee does not move back on a Muay Thai kick but that is because the shin and the knee pass the plane of the target together, so the knee isn't a hinge either... the whole leg is like a baseball bat. The Muay Thai kick get's power from forward step and from striking up at 45 degrees. Since the whole leg is like a baseball bat, the power comes up from the ground. I know we don't train together FoD but just based on the description you present, I'm pretty sure if you are not using your knee as a piston on karate kicks, you are losing 10-30% of your potential power.
the knee adds power when it extends. displacement of the knee itself is caused by the hip and hip joint. i use all three when i kick. re: roller: we've been telling people not to do that here on MAP for years, and it makes no sense from a physiological perspective
Well the roller is used in conjunction with kicking a harder target (such as a banana tree). It is important to kick something that provides about the same pressure/give as the human body. Some kick pressurized rubber tires, for example. Not something too hard. On the other hand, there isn't a lot of blood flow through the shin, so the roller, IME, helps to get blood flood to the area, allowing it to heal and recover faster from trauma to the shin. As for the karate round kick, maybe just semantic differences between what we are saying. Here is an example of what I like to see with the knee action in kicks: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGvP-nSpwqA"]Bill "Superfoot" Wallace 3 Kicks Detailed - YouTube[/ame] So with the round kick (done slowly so you can really see it in the video), the knee moves passed the target and then it starts to move in the opposite direction for the kick. This is the piston action at the knee. This adds power to the kick. It may be semantics to what you are saying because using the knee as a piston adds power from the hip and upper leg to the kick... so the result might be the same between what I'm saying and what you are saying. Bill Wallace, however, does strike with the instep on his round kick. I don't like this for power. I feel it is a result of sport with pads on the feet. When I was knocked out in the early 1990s in karate competition by a round kick to the head... I was hit with the ball of the foot. I think ball of the foot hits harder than instep when using karate round kick mechanics. As for the wrong way to throw a karate round kick. The karate round kick in this video does not use the knee as a piston. There is a great loss of potential power due to this bad technique: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdGNWB1GYzI"]Muay Thai in Richmond, Va: Roundhouse Kick technique VS Thai Kick technique - YouTube[/ame] On the other hand, the woman in the above video is better at her Muay Thai round kick. It still could be improved some, but she seems to know the mechanics much better than her karate round kick. IMHO. Edit: I noticed also that the first time the woman tries to do the round kick in the air, she is doing it right (knee as piston and hinge), then she is corrected by the instructor to point the knee at the target... and from that point on the knee is only a hinge and the kick has lost power).
