Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by runcai, Jul 20, 2014.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sorry, runcai, I don't get you, and nor do I see how that, in any way, answers my question.
  2. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    David, this might be a good thread to let go of. All the comedy has been drained out of it, runcai has shown he has little or no knowledge of what he is talking about, and he really doesn't seem to want to learn from others.


    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  3. embra

    embra Valued Member

    I am not going to 'debate' daoyin with a roboid.
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Wise words, Mike. I shall heed them.
  5. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Are you talking about this introduction.

    Interesting, but not an answer to my question

    I can honestly say I studied in the martial background is mainly in the art of Chen Wangting I learned from his family members as well as students in the lineage some years ago. I could then go spouting off how much I know about Chen style and avoiding question and then giving vague answers as well as asking questions as answers too... but You see the thing is, although I am not lying and I have done what I said, I only trained with a Chen family member a couple times and with a student in the lineage once and some other students of the family member a couple times in Chen and at no time would anyone in the Chen family think of me as a student I learned silk reeling and Laojia yilu and the 18 (or is it 19) form, but I still do not think that means I know chen or that I am an expert at Chen. I can also say I have I studied and my martial background is mainly in the art of Chen Wangting as I learned from his students, great great great grand-students, and family members.... and again I am not lying, but any family member I talk about means I watched a video or read a book so in my opinion I really have not trained with them at all. But I am actually considered in that line from Tung Ying Chieh, but now I'm talking Yang style. And I have studied extensively, one on one and in classes with a sifu (student of Tung Ying Chieh).

    But until I said the "I studied extensively bit with a sifu I never once said I really trained with anyone extensively although all that sure as hell gave the impression that I did.

    And you say you don't want to repeat yourself, and I do not know why because I am not asking about your lineage, I am asking do you (or have you) train with a teacher, in person, one on one, up close? Or have you studied more from books and videos?

    Now to tell you the truth this next bit makes me think it is more from books and videos and bad books and videos at that. But if it is with a teacher I recommend finding another one because referencing the Six harmonies tells me you have no idea what Xingyiquan is or how it works because the six harmonies refer to the Three Internal Harmonies and the Three External Harmonies (Yin and Yang) which is the internal harmonizing with the external and with just that, there is more by the way, I am getting the impression that you really do not know much about Xingyiquan because there has to be focus on both yin and yang in Xingyi you get no harmony at all and your Xingyi will not work and is, for the most part, not Xingyiquan at all

    First there is much more to xingyi than Zuanquan. Zuanquan is part of Wuxingquan which is still only part of Xingyiquan there is also Shí'èr Xíng and again that is still not all there is to xingyiquan and xingyiquan does not focus on only the yin meridian, saying that is simply wrong. And if you know five elements theory (and I doubt you do) each element has more that one associated organ and each has both a yin and a yang meridian. If you are only studying Yin you are not studying xingyiquan

    The Xingyiquan 5 elements

    Piquan - Metal (金, jīn) - lung (Yin), large intestine (Yang)
    Zuanquan - Water ( 水, shuǐ) - kidney (Yin), bladder (Yang)
    Bengquan - Wood (木, mù) - Liver (Yin), gall bladder (Yang)
    Paoquan - Fire (火, huǒ) - heart (Yin), Small Intestine (Yang)
    Hengquan - Earth (土, tǔ) - spleen (Yin), stomach (Yang)

    And still this is only a part of Xingyiquan

    I recommend you look into the Creative Cycle and a Destructive as well and again you see there is more to xingyiquan than just the yin maridian…

    So endeth the lesson

    I'm done.....and I shall now stop and let the thread die
  6. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I don't know anything about Xingi, but I have never heard of a Chinese martial art that does not deal with a balance of both yin and yang energies.

    The balance of the two seems essential. Hence, the bit of Yin in the yang side and a bit of the yang in the yin side of the yin yang symbol.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  7. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    What happen to the Pericardium and triple heater meridians?

    This is interesting, as the Mawangdui archaeological site also find the Moxibustion Classic on the Eleven Yin and Yang Channels. So before 186BC there were only 11 meridians.

    And now we got 10 from Xue Sheng.

    The Mawangdui Daoyin Shu Exercise suggested stretching, etc., and stretching is the lengthening of muscle fibres so it is kind of eccentric exercise.
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Did I even mention meridians...NO. I told you that you were wrong saying Xingyiquan focused on the Yin side of things, I could go into great detail about Xingyiquan theory and songs but I am not here to teach you for free so you can later quote me to show how much you know

    It is interesting though, you get called on things that you say, then you can't defend your position so you either try to ignore what was said or you then try and change things by bring in things absolutely no one mentioned. Or try and attribute something to someone that they never said...do you honestly believe no one will notice this.....

    Yup. I'm done wasting my time with you, Grandmaster runcai (meant in the spirit of Traditional [old school] Chinese martial arts on mainland China...that goes for Hong Kong too)
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  10. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    I find that "eccentric muscle contractions generate greater force at a lower level of activation and subject muscles to more damage than do concentric actions" is interest. As there are some similarities between eccentric muscle contractions and the training methods of Internal Martial Arts, and the Mawangdui Daoyin Shu also suggesting the eccentric training methods. And moving forcefully and slowly will avoided muscle damage. But that was years ago, as eccentric resistance exercise and the utilization of stored elastic muscles energy are more relevant to the techniques of martial arts.
  11. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    When you are discussing "eccentric" you mean something like this?

  12. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    runcai, I thought I'd shoot a video this morning that demonstrates my incredible muscle control and chi.

    Only when you can demonstrate such mastery will I take you seriously. :meditate:

    Words are simple, actions are everything.

    This is martial arts at its very highest level and the muscle manipulation isn't something I teach to just anyone. :hail:

    Here I'm removing my training partner's chi, rendering him weak. :rolleyes:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmwkOIDKHww"]Simon's Incredible Chi - YouTube[/ame]
  13. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Excellent demonstration of earth-chi there, Simon :hail:

    I can tell by watching that clip, you have developed your triple-dragon meridian to a high level. I can only imagine the destructive force you can unleash on your opponents.
  14. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    :jawdrop: I'm pretty sure I lost some qi just by watching the video, I doubt I could handle it if I were actually there :hail: :hail: :hail:
  15. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    My demonstration of using Chi to disrupt an attackers aura-field, in order to knock them back as they approach:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4yJ_PP6cHA"]Empty Force - brief demonstration - YouTube[/ame]

    Here, earth-chi is drawn up the long-dong meridian line in the third leg channel, before being expelled over the opponent.
  16. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    DAMN!!!! Now I feel totally inadequate with my impotent powers of qi.... :D
  17. Daoren

    Daoren New Member

    In discussion is about secular Daoyin, like "Yoga", but its true origin is form Neidan (Daoist Alchemy), as all Daoist arts are (Shudao, Chadao, etc all come from cultivating Da Dao).

    Zhongliquan even said about Daoyin being a false and inconsistent method of Neidan, you can see it in chapter 2 of Zhong Lu Chuan Dao Ji (Transmission of Dao from Zhongliquan to Ludongbin)

    The reason I talk about Neidan is because it is the true origin of Daoyin, original Daoyin is just Neidan (alchemy), but today (and in ancient times it is misunderstood as "Daoist Yoga" or "Qigong" working with post-natal (houtian) jingqishen, where Neidan works with pre-natal jingqishen (xiantian).

    You can see some more information here..
  18. runcai

    runcai Valued Member

    Daoyin is traced back to 168 BC in China.
  19. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Daoyin is just another name for Qigong. Actually it was used instead of Qigong and then qigong showed up
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Must be legit then.

    Attached Files:

Share This Page