dantain rotation

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by windwalker, May 31, 2022.

  1. Nachi

    Nachi Valued Member Supporter

    Well I didn't mean the difficult part was to learn a good number of forms. As for the weaponless, the style I am learning basically only has the 108 form (of which I only know the first part - 72) - just to clarify.
    To understand the basics is one thing, to do them well, at least for me, is a whole other beast.
    "Movement, balance, and breathing." Well, it sounds easy, and sure, everyone can do that to a degree. But to be honest, I find all three hard to do well in the Taiji way :D But I do not mind that. On the contrary, it means I have lots to work and I am happy with any progress I am making. Furthermore, it means, Taiji will keep me busy for years to come, if I stick with it :)

    Then again, it's just me... (and yeah, I don't deny my body framing isn't the best - haven't done wrestling).
    Grond likes this.
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Just for the discussion, Could you share your thought on the difference between a Taiji way and wrestling way?

    Here is an example of the Chinese wrestling way. What will a Taiji person do any differently?


    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  3. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Haw,haw.Someone didn't know what the Wu clan in Toronto trains in is Judo!:D That's where their break falls stem from.
    If TC is a wrestling system it's a poor one as has no ground game.Not unlike all the other stand up CMAs which have lots of throws/takedowns/etc-which may be very good but only while they retain their general .....uprightness. I mentioned to you once seeing a Hung demo that was almost all throws/locks/etc-and very well executed!-does that mean Fu Hok is a wrestling system? If all the Hung people start emphasizing that aspect would that make it so? I guess maybe,but I feel it would be a lesser wrestling system than it was a boxing system.'Cause no ground work.

    Outside the avenue of strictly sport-such as Greco-Roman-relying on a standup wrestling system as one's main method in combat would seem rather suicidal because this increases the likelihood of going down -and then one is doomed.If one seeks to wrestle one is going to hit the ground more often ,and then what? Standup boxing systems have to plug that gap with methods outside their systems because by definition any standup system doesn't have it,or at least to much degree of sophistication.So what's the point of being a standup wrestling system with no ground work?

    Your teacher's emphasis in TC was the stuff he liked-throws and what not.Such preferences don't change what the overall design of a system is,and the older writings have more of a striking/issuing emphasis than anything else. Even statements commonly translated as throwing someone out usually don't refer to throws but to issuing on a point to execute a balance attack taken to its conclusion-either downing or driving someone off their feet.That was generally what my teachers,including the Chinese ones, meant by it too.

    I still stand by my assertion that -your branch of TC being excluded,of course-there wasn't much of a perception of TC being a wrestling system until the advent of PH tourneys. If it's a wrestling system why do more TC practitioners in Taiwan,Malaysia,Hong Kong,etc. fight in open boxing tourneys rather than shuaijiao meets? Probably because they face a greater chance of defeat from the get go?
    I don't know.I guess it would depend on if there are differences in opening/closing and other body method stuff.
    David Harrison likes this.
  4. Nachi

    Nachi Valued Member Supporter

    I am sorry, I am very busy today and in the weekend, so I won't partake in much of a discussion, but to be honest, I don't havve much to discuss in this regard anyway.
    I've never done wrestling and have no idea how it's taught, what the priciples are, what techniques it has, so I cannot really compare. I guess the techniques might look pretty similar, though, and can't see why it would be strange? In the first clip, if you hadn't written it's Chinese wrestling, I would indeed feel it could very well be Taiji - it has the rotational movement coming from the hips and focus on one's axis I'd say. Since it's Chinese wrestling, I supose it isn't surprising if the roots and basics are the same.

    I see why some Taiji techniques can't be the same as in wrestling. There are punches in Taiji that are pretty much the same as in Karate. Would that mean that Taiji is the same as Karate? Probably not. But there would be similarities. It could be the same with the comparison of Taiji and wrestling. But I can't discuss much about it since I don't know wrestling. I hardly know that much about Taiji :)
    David Harrison and Simon like this.
  5. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Some people like to emphasize the difference between Taiji and other MA systems. Some people (like myself) like to emphasize the similiarity.

    A: What's the difference between these 2 cats?
    B: This cat is white. That cat is black.
    C: They both catch mouse.

    I'm with C on this.

    I assume the whole discussion has to do with this comment.

    "If you feel taiji is not much different than grappling,,,for you it may not be...for others "myself" included it may be totally different..."
    David Harrison likes this.
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Mastery is a lifelong pursuit in any art, but if a system is effective and well taught, it should be quick to gain competence.
    Flying Crane likes this.
  7. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Technique wise; Any wrestling in a Chinese martial art is going to basically draw from Chinese wrestling, what else could it possibly do or be.. it's gonna be wrestling, because that's what it is!
    As for differences - I'd agree there are much much more similarities.

    There can be and are some differences, but that's mainly stylistic (including body methods), tactical and strategic. The core of it can't change, technique wise. TCC in my opinion prefers the fast wrestling style - 'knockdowns'.

    A style like TCC isn't going to do everything like the sport version of Chinese wrestling. Won't go into detail as it's basically too laborious, but for the most part most of it is maybe pretty obvious?

    As for the move posted, no I don't think it would really be different at all, taken on it's own.

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