Dana White: "Alistair Overeem isn´t a top 10 MMA-fighter".

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by ChangNam, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. ChangNam

    ChangNam Valued Member

    What u guys think about Dana Whites. Comment about Alistair Overeem ??

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHSWP6WPotI&feature=related"]YouTube - Dana White: "Overeem isn´t a top 10 MMA-fighter".[/ame]
     
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Alistair Overeem: "Dana White can't actually fight at all"
     
  3. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Standard Dana BS. The top competition for his guys always gets talked down on to points beyond reason. Nothing new. The UFC isn't helping the meathead image of MMA at all. I wish we had something like Pride widely available in the states.
     
  4. liero

    liero Valued Member

    He said a similar thing about fedor a few months ago as well...
     
  5. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

    It also seems that MMA is struggling to spread, struggling to stay afloat. If this were not the case, there would be no need to add all kinds of things (like extra weight classes) in Europe, China, Japan...it also seems that Dana White doesn't completely have the answers. Why make exceptions if what you have is so great? Because it can be better? Well then, I would have to say it wasn't so great to begin with then.

    "These guys go at it"...in reference to the lighter weight classes...does that mean that what they have now with the heavier classes don't go at it, and so they have to offer more?

    Roy Nelson involved in a bad contract? Why didnt Dana Whites company fix it...just for the sake of promotion purposes, and getting a couple of guys together who would give it a go? If these guys are taking talent from the bottom of the pool, aka bottom feeding, then shouldn't it be their responsibility to review the contracts ahead of time...preferably by a licensed attorney? Or is this something that is handled by the janitor?

    Jack assed mma websites? That can't be good for spreading the future of MMA...

    The actor Jack Black gets paid royalties forever as long as his stuff sells, that does not mean his movies are worth a crap.

    Small guys are really the guys that are "fornicating" the fighters? Sounds like we have a real MMA battle going on now...one not confined to the octagon? If that's just what the "small guys" can do, I'd hate to see what the "big guys" can do!

    Alistar not fighting? How many others are "not fighting?" No sense of urgency right now? Would it matter if there was?

    So, basically a K-1 fighter has no chance of crossing over into MMA, and the MMA media reporters and writers are stupid.

    "Just fighting in the K-1, where you kick and punch...there's no wrestling, there's no this, there's no that"...no song, no dance, no music! We want the sound of waterfalls, and over here a bird chirpping...and just as the limo pulls infront of the hotel, and the bell hop opens the door, we want POP CORN!!! Lots and lots of POP CORN!!! I mean, does wrestling and "this and that" make a fight, or can these guys in K-1 fight without wrestling, and take care of business so that only one person hits the floor...or mats, or whatever it is one person would be falling down to?

    I thot that mixed martial arts (MMA) were supposed to be mixed? Does that exclude the mixing of K-1 fighters, Alistar and Fedora...what is a good mix and what is a bad mix, and who decides? Dana White? Seems MMA isn't so mixed after all.

    I'm not sure who the quote is attributed to, but a famous Chinese quote goes something like this: "When two whales fight, the shrimp suffer."
    The shrimp being these "fornicated" websites that obviously don't have the MMA/UFC seal of approval...good luck trying to make a buck and keeping your doors open!

    "You done with me?" Seems to be, in my oppinion, where MMA/UFC is headed...bottom feeding off the shrimp, a whole lot of jockeying going on at the top, a lot of grabbing at straws...who gets the short straw?

    Anyways, just my opinnions and views as a very, very, very, very distant outsider.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  6. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Not meaning to be rude... (wot?!!) but my guess would be that you don't follow MMA or the fight game all that much. MMA is as big as it's ever been in fact if it's not already it's on it's way to being mainstream. Judging from the sponsors alone and the fact that you can get fight scores/results on CBS (a very middle American news channel) would seem to indicate that it's got plenty of steam.


    Not true at all. Look at the massive amount of weight classes in professional boxing. Look at how UFC absorbed the WEC. Some of the most exciting fights anywhere in the world... just not at 205lbs... more like at 140lbs. So of course they're going to add weight classes as they grow. That only makes the talent pool deeper. Much, much deeper. That translates to revenue and to butts on seats which is also... you guessed it... revenue.

    That the UFC is primarily owned by the Fertitta brothers... long time involved in the gambling/casino and boxing world out of Vegas to my way of thinking only means one thing. Mobbed up. They know money. They know how to generate it... and they have all the experience from what they've seen happen to the mismanagement of boxing as a pro sport to be able to hone the direction of MMA. For all intents and purposes... in the US they are the only game in town. It's practically a freakin' monopoly they have. Insane when you think about the amount of cash you need to even break into the market they essentially own and run. If you consider the amount of lawyers they must keep on hand to deal with contracts, rights and all the numbers side of this business... MASSIVE.


    Dana White despite his big mouth isn't infallible. But he's clever in the extreme. Aside from his persona... he's making a tidy sum providing some of the best action packed bouts anywhere on the planet. If you think Dana White screws things up and dodges around and doesn't put together the fights fans want to see then come on over to boxing some time and welcome to a much more miserable world.

    ? Such as?..... You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder against MMA. Care to explain?

    It's well known the lighter weight classes hold far more action than the heavier weight classes. This holds true for just about any 1-on-1 competitive sport. They're just not as marketable as the heavyweights up. I can rattle of a list a mile long of bantam weights and straw weights and super fly weights that most boxing fans will have never heard of. Why? Because people equate size with excitement and power. Watch many of the undercard fights in the Philippines and you'll see there is much, much more action at those lighter weight classes then there are in most heavy fights of the modern era.

    ahhahaha... never underestimate the skullduggery involved in arranging fights and the sketchiness of the contracts. Those attorneys I noted earlier aren't always in the employ of the sponsors/promoters to make life easier or more fair for the fighters. Most fighters just flat out won't have a lawyer. So the person managing contracts will be a manager. Who is usually one step above a hustler or the guy who served you your slurpy at 7-11. :p

    hahahhha... good read that. :)
    I'm not entirely sure of the blood between K-1 and UFC but seems to me that Dana isn't all that keen for whatever reason (and there are surely many many reasons) about bringing in PRIDE or K-1 fighters to the UFC. Sometimes I think it could simply be down to nothing more than he'd have to hire a script writer that could write more than just the letter UFC for the commentators. Seriously... watch NBA - none of the commentators foam at the mouth about NBA... same for NFL... or for NHL... but in UFC it's bloody ridiculous to listen the amount they hype it. UFC this and UFC that... man... whoda thunk that sliced bread is now on the bottom shelf.:hat:
     
  7. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

    Thanks for your insight, Split.

    You're right, I haven't even seen a total of say 10 or 15 MMA/UFC fights (nor do I care to), I just know scrambling for cover when I see it:

    And where is boxing today? Is that the same future for MMA/UFC? Sure seems like it. Hone the direction of it? The struggling at the top to make it more viable indicates they have a severe lack of leadership and management, as well as folks that can read contracts...let alone honning any type of future. That Dana White gets his paycheck is of little consequence. I'd be surprised to see if this expands as they want it to places like China, Japan, Mexico, Indonesia...big plans, the problem is they are running into a culture clash...those folks don't want it, they already have a system and fighting arts inplace that does not need to be "mixed up."

    They will never be able to charge as much as what is charged in Japan for sumo wrestling...lack of revenue from the outset...no advertising funds, no funds to pay fighters, lack of funds to cover insurance for stadium/venue rentals. The list goes on. Nor will they be able to gain the appeal of already popular sports like judo, karate, jujitsu, which MMA/UFC borrows heavily from, and already at a great disadvantage...those spectators that go to watch those events know a dedicated judoka when they see one! Same for sumo. The compitition is feirce. The "company" as it is called, or the "franchise" is already operating at a loss, in my opinnion.

    The reason NFL, NBA, NHL, MBL don't have to foam at the mouth to hype it up, is because these sports stand alone, do not need the hype. Why the hype with MMA/UFC? What is there to hype that is not already there? Nothing. That's my opinnion. Don't believe the hype! Afterall, it's just hype anyways. The NFL after all of its tried and tested years in operation is just now beginning to attempt to expand overseas. MMA/UFC is but an infant in comparison, in fact there is no comparison.

    I would agree that Dana White is clever as hell, and he does have one thing going for him...a great media personality!

    Overall, there might be 5-6 years left...and that's about it. The revenue that is made at the top...lets face it, by the cable/network/payperview outlets (where the money is truely collected) will tire of working so hard for such little return. Lets face it again...ultimatems have already probably been handed down from the top. If they went any lighter with weight classes, say 120 or 100 pounds, they would have to include teens and children fighting in the octagon. Probably not a viable choice for future operations.

    Plans for the olympics? Since MMA is already a mix of many olympic sports, I see little future in that approach as well.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  8. Kwan Jang

    Kwan Jang Valued Member

    Funny how Dana White tried to promote some WWE Wrestler as THE top MMA heavyweight with less credentials or credibility than Overeem. It should be noted that when Randy came back into the heavyweight division, his outpointing Tim Sylvia over the course of their fight made Randy the "best" (BTW, I am not trying to tear down Randy or his performance in that fight, but simply to put things in a realistic light). However, when Fedor DESTROYS the same Tim Sylvia in roughly 30 seconds, that is not so impressive...?

    Much of Lesnar's credibility as a champion came from beating Couture, who had been out of action and actually had considered himself retired until Zuffa forced him back due to his contract. Randy did not have the time to properly train and even with all that, Lesnar more or less caught him rather than dominated Couture. Cain came along and showed the world how Lesnar was lacking against a true world class heavyweight MMA fighter.

    IMO, Strikeforce has a stronger line up in the heavyweight division than the UFC. Cain and JDS are impressive and if and when Carwin does his due dillegence and brings up his cardio, he has the potential to be world class as well. Cain might win the Strikeforce tournament if he were in there and healthy, I would really doubt the chances of a Lesnar who White spent so much energy hyping up.
     
  9. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    But the UFC has already held shows in Ireland, Canada, the UK, Germany, the UAE, and Australia; they've got an upcoming event set for Brazil later this year. Under their former management, they've already been to Japan and Brazil before. Countries like the UK, Japan, Brazil, China, South Korea, Germany, France, Polland, Russia, the PI, Thailand, Mexico, Australia, Costa Rica, Ireland, Canada, and the Netherlands all hold MMA events. Organizations like Dream, Sengoku, KSW, Shooto, M-1, and BAMMA are doing well enough on their own, not to mention other US promotions like Bellator and Strikeforce. In its prime, the now-defunct Japanese organization Pride was selling out Saitama Super Arena.

    As for even lighter weight classes, Shooto, which is not only the oldest but the longest-running MMA promotion in existence, includes 123lbs and 115lbs weight classes. There are already plenty of good fighters in those classes, including BJ Kojima, Rambaa Somdet, Hiroyuki Abe, and Mamoru Yamaguchi; Western fighters like Demitrious Johnson, who just beat the highly regarded "Kid" Yamamoto, are 125ers who are fighting up a class so they'll have a pay day. The talent is there. They're not making room for them out of desparation, they're making room for them because they deserve it. The UFC has over 100 fighters on their roster already and has no trouble paying them. With all due respect, your prediction that it'll only last another 5-6 years is wishful thinking. In fact, in 2013, the UFC will have had it's 20th Anniversary show, and Shooto will be heading into its 28th year.
     
  10. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

    Pride, already defunct? Imagine that. Was selling out? What happened? 20 years? 28 years? A flash in the pan compared to NFL football.
     
  11. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    To my knowledge they were doing fine then Zuffa (UFC owners) bought them out and struggled to adapt from their western market for a little while. Renamed it Dream and is doing ok
     
  12. roninmaster

    roninmaster be like water

    ok so from your first couple post it is quite easy to see you don't at all care much for the sport to begin with.

    with that said it has been said before and will be said again- its the fastest growing sport in the world. and its expansion just proves it. the sport has done in 6 years what took other sports 40-50. it has become a global phenomenon in almost a millisecond. let me compare it to another sport that was new and fresh but died fast "robot fighting"

    robot fighting got popular almost over night yet died extraordinarily fast. this is because it was nothing more then a fad, spurred by media outlet of the world being in a new millennium. aside from having some minor toys, 30 min tv spots, and nick nacks. there wasn't anything else left.

    now compare it to MMA. mma has been around since the 90's to begin with but didn't get popular to the new millennium. it has gained almost a cult following overnight. unlike robot fighting there has already been way to much money and power pumped into it for people to ever let it die. there are tons of clothing lines, MMA gyms popping up overnight. people beating down the doors of BJJ and muay thai schools. multiple MMA fight magazines. More and more shows being generated oversees in every major country in the world. and perhaps the most important, acceptance as a legitimate sport by major sport and news networks like ESPN and CBS.

    as slip already pointed out all of this equates to one thing. "more money in peoples pockets" yes it is indeed very hyped up right now but that doesn't only point to it being just whats hip in new. all this is simple natural selection of the sport.

    since the sport is new everyone is trying to establish themselves as the go-to most reliable people of the sport. the reason UFC is growing so bigger is to crush all the competition and establish themselves as the number 1 and only MMA organization. just like the NBA, and the NFL. its why they absorbed WEC as well as PRIDE. its why Dana white made such a big deal in the media about eliteXC's corrupt business practice with Kimbo Slice. they want to be the only one left standing when the smoke clears. that is the business strategy of both Amheiser bush and Walmart as well. "absorb everything they can to crush there competition" and its no question in anyone's mine whether or not those two companies are going to fall anytime soon.

    yes it is indeed really popular right now, and that popularity will die down with time just as everything new does. however that doesn't decree a end to the sport ,or anything for that matter. people do not get as hyped about new ipods as much as they did a couple years ago because they aren't anything new. but that doesn't mean that we are all going back to buying CD players either.

    the same happened with Karate, and all traditional forms of martial arts back in the 70's and 80's. the popularity died down, but the schools didn't just disappear

    the sport is here to stay, and the growth, and more importantly the money to even do it, only proves that.
     
  13. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

    You have to look at a few major factors:

    Spike TV is a branch of MTV, which is owned by Viacom.

    Spike TV reaches about 99 million people. Of that, on a good hyped up fight, they get around 1.1 million PPV buys...hardly a decent return vs. the number of viewers.

    Zuffa made a deal with ION Networks, a free broadcast TV Network that reaches approx 100 million people. Now they can reach 100 million folks who don't pay a thing! Yea!

    ION filed for bankruptcy in 2009.

    Spike TV contract is set to expire end of 2011.

    TapOut has backed off in its sponsorship.

    It does not matter what the mass appeal is, it is the deals made at the top.

    Any guesses as to where the future lies?

    In 2009 the UFC averaged 620,000 buys per ppv event. If we look at the percentage each event was above or below that average we can definitely see a downward trend from 100.

    July 2009 to April 2010:

    UFC 100 1,600,000 + 245%
    UFC 101 850,000 + 29%

    UFC 102 435,000 -30%
    UFC 103 375,000 -40%

    UFC 104 500,000 -20%
    UFC 106 375,000 -40%

    UFC 107 620,000 +/- 0
    UFC 108 300,000 -51%

    UFC 109 275,000 -55%
    UFC 110 240,000 -62%

    Average with title on line 820,000
    Average with non-title main event 370,000
    http://www.cagepotato.com/ufc-learns-hard-way-title-fights-ppv-buys/

    UFC 124 had 350,000 PPV buys...6000 tickets comped for free.

    If I were a acquisition executive, I would have to say that these just are not worth my effort...hence all the hype, struggle, and strife!
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  14. roninmaster

    roninmaster be like water

    so your telling me you honestly believe because one tv company has gone out of business that an entire sport is going down the drain?

    seriosuly dude? you really want this to die huh?

    let see seing as MMA is a multi billion dollar industry let alone the UFC itself as well as the number one attracting show that spike has as its claim to fame. do you honestly think they are going to drop the ufc? if they did do you know how many networks would be quick to pick them up in a heartbeat. just on the hype alone. why would zuffa's contract with ion have anything to do with them still being held on to by spike to begin with. its not the UFC's bankrupcy.

    the reason zuffa would pay to reach more people would be to hype those who don't get a chance to watch mma up, by showcasing the free mma events like TUF, and live ultimate showdowns. to get them involved enough to actually want to go pay for pay per view.

    hell i'll humor you. worst comes to worse and spike dropped UFC, and they aren't picked up in a heart beat by another network. then here comes good ole strikeforce to absorb them. vwolla!! the company stays afloat.

    Scenario # 2.) the company completely dies and strikeforce goes on and signs all the fighters and ads all the weightclasses,and ad to the fact that strikeforce already has a female division. something mr white won't do for some reason. then now strikeforce has officially sanctioned themselves as the ultimate source for MMA that i mentioned earlier. the amheiser bush of the sport.

    you seem to forget there are tons of MMA organizations, not just UFC. UFC just happens to be the most popular. if they were for some illogical reason die to a contract ending( again EXTRAORDINARILY UNLIKELY) then that means one of the lesser organizations would just come in, and take all they could from the reminisce. its business 101 dude.
     
  15. roninmaster

    roninmaster be like water


    http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/ufc-pay-per-view-numbers-breakdown-728122/

    you seem to not want to read the rest of the article. UFC got its lowest numbers when it did not have any entertaining matches. or with any big name guys. which as the author wrote just proves that people don't wanna see fights that don't matter, between people they don't know. i can attest to that myself.

    however this doesn't prove death is imminent it just proves that people favor certain fighters over others. you seem to not realize that it has the most number of PPV events out of boxing, pro wrestling, and kickboxing and is neck in neck with boxing in PPV sales as well. and completely obliterates the results of WWE. yet i don't see the WWE scrounging to survive either.

    with the absorbtion of long time sister company WEC, it just solidifies more stacked cards and , you guessed it, more money.
     
  16. izumizu

    izumizu Banned Banned

  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Sorry to correct yourselves.

    PRIDE FC was in trouble due to rumoured links to Yakuza (Japanese Organised Crime) and even just a rumour was enough for the big TV channels to cease any links with them. Japanese MMA was soaring in popularity if not financially at the time anyway.
    When Pride went down, Zuffa Inc dived in and nabbed it.

    Dream FC is currently owned by someone else and is doing "OK" due to the stigma of Yakuza, big corporations are hesistant to get involved.

    China and Hong Kong are starting up and doing well with MMA. Art of War China has been bought by Abu Dhabi (ADCC) following rules very close to Vale Tudo and Hong Kong has HK Legends, which is still very young.

    UFC China has just opened up last year and talks are in for UFC Japan to get in, Ultimate Fighter World: Phillipines will be the first non US Ultimate Fighter series.

    So, theyre doing OK I think.......
     
  18. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    Even if MMA hasn't overtaken boxing just yet I wouldn't be surprised if it did so in the foreseeable future. I totally respect boxing (and I currently train in it myself) but I think the shorter fights and greater variety of MMA make it more fun to watch, at least for the casual observer. I think people are starting to get past the whole "human **** fighting" BS and recognise that it's a proper sport with rules and well-trained fighters, so the only way is up IMHO.

    EDIT: just thought I'd emphasise for the benefit of the mods that the blanked-out word was not meant in a swearing context :p
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  19. roninmaster

    roninmaster be like water

    go re-read my post,i said MMA was neck and neck with boxing, i did not say it had overtaken it. even the info i posted didn't argue that. its getting close to and depending on the particular card can be very close or higher.

    its still a very new sport with many nay-sayers against it. calling it human cockfights and what have you. as these people die out and more and more good fights start happening the sport goes up. don't make this into a which is more popular sport thing. MMA was never even heard of 10 years ago it'd be crazy to think it will surpass a sport that has been around since the beginning of human history that quickly. the argument was you saying the sport is going to die for some reason you have yet to define other then a company associated with the UFC going bankrupt and a contract ending at the end of the year. something that will happen 40-50% of the shows on television as well.just like it happens every year. hardly any facts that prove the sport of MMA is doing poorly.

    you should really get off your anti-MMA high horse.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  20. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    I would say he is not a top 10 fighter either. I think he is a good pro nothing more. He was a top 10 fighter in his day but that day for me has passed and others have taken his spot. He has not had many fights over the past 3-4 years but he is doing well with the ones he has.

    To say he can't fight is wrong but he is not a top 10 performer anymore.
     

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