Just wondering whether any of the WC guys here (or other KF practitioners for that matter!) practice: Dan chi sao? Dan chi sao with footwork? Lok sao? Lok sao with foot work? Chi sao? Chi sao with footwork?
yep all of the above. Is that the order you practice it in? We start with lok sau and then move to dhan and then chi sau
Me too I train the basics every day. And everything with a lot of footwork. Wiith Dan Chi Sau I train my footwork the same way as in the Siu Nim Tau, both feet in, knees bent, correct distance between the feet and hips forward. The basisposition for all stepping and kicking. But that's not what you meant by footwork isn't it? GJ.
I never learned the term lok sau either during my training. But if I am correct some schools use the term lok sau instead of poon sau (rolling hands technique). These rear type of terms are difficult to bring back to the original meaning without the Chinese karakters. GJ.
just started to do this regularly question though, what's the correct mechanics for dan chi sao, meaning the hand and arm rotation, in relation to ones own waste?
The hand mechanics will take a long time typing explaining something simple, so I pass on that one. On the matter of the waste: Keep it forward and still. The waste will get stronger first by prefenting it from moving just like in the SNT. GJ.
thanks for the info : ), wow this is very polar from what i've been doing, and very sac-religious for a CLF practitioner.....the way i've been taught is to maximize waste movement, and minimize arm... when i push, i move my body foward, then when u counter and push me, i lean body back and use hand/wrist to roll ur force outside of my body.... -the dan chi sao i do is from a standard horse with the right side of my body facing ur left, or vice versa,
Lok Sao is the first sensitivity and reflex drill we train. One partner performs a Lap Sao and Punch, and the other defends with Bong Sao. Then the movement is reversed. Various changes and attacks are learnt once the basic "rolling" is mastered.
why would anyone not do there exercises? (although we never do single hand + stepping). Lok sau is the "double hand" exercise sometimes called "rolling hands"...except you aren't really rolling them
Gotta ask. What's your footwork? Never seen any dan chi sao with footwork. Anybody train lop sao drill? Someotherguy: there are some lineages who don't do dan chi sao or various levels of poon/lok/gor/chi sao. I've also been to a school where 'normal' chi sao was taught simply as the movements of the arms, and there was NO instruction as to pressure, energy, technique, principle. It was pish though. A Malaysian teacher I met didn't do chi sao at all: different lineage to Yip Man.
You can devise many dan chi sau drills yourself once you understand the footwork (ofthen ends up with moving in circles like a dance) they are useful drills since it is common when free fighting to only have contact/control over one of opponents limbs. IF lop sau = lap sau then yep think everyone who does wc trains lap sau ,of course there are different ideas about the lap sau drill some grab and straight punch some just use the flat (chum kui) fook sau and straight punch whereas some use questionable, almost back fist to attack , which is def wrong! Apparently story goes ip man demonstrated the back fist onto students bong sau's sometimes to check structure and some of these students went away with totally wrong idea thinking it was part of lap sau drill.
Lok sau. Lets of schools in the UK call that the lap sau drill, you bong and lap an incoming strike and return the strike with the hand that originally bonged. We practice all of the above, a question though. Why would do Dan chi sau without footwork? One of the major purposes of that drill is to improve footwork, as you only have one arm.
Yep, that's the one, but no, not everyone does by any means. I train with people from many lineages a lot (I'm in a multi-lineage group) and most people do, but not all. From different ideas to definitely wrong! You're a quick learner! Whose story goes like that? Lo Man Kam does what you might be calling a backfist (you know, Yip Man's nephew, who was a private student of his from the start) in lop sao drill. His energy goes down and out like a whipping hosepipe and if that rakes down your nose (read centreline) it'll crush your philtrum and your balance. Don't think you'd be calling it 'wrong' then! That's interesting. When I trained in Sam Kwok's (Yip Chun and Yip Ching's lineage) lineage he didn't do footwork with dan chi sao, nor do the 13 year sifu's of Leung Ting's lineage I've trained with, nor the 13 year student of William Cheung's line (well he may have done but I don't think so), nor the 8 year student of WSL's line, nor the 9 year sifu from John Virgilio's line... and there are a few etcs... That's why I asked what footwork!? If you mean turning, then sure, I've done that. We train dan chi sao as a sensitivity drill for bridging the learning between slt and two handed chi sao forms, to develop your horse, your forward energy, your sensitivity to incoming. When your training advances you put in steps automatically when needs be, but we don't learn any footwork patterns per se with the hand work.
oh right....lol The main purpose is to get your structure right, keep the elbow out and in, get the elbow going forward, become aware of distances, reacting to a threat and providing a counter, get the lines & shapes correct etc. Like Mr Punch, I was introduced to it after SLT, and at that stage you aren't stepping. Please explain the pattern of the drill you practice when you are stepping.
If you're doing dan chi sao as a precursor to chi sao, then no you wouldn't do it with footwork, because you would just confuse the poor beginner. When practicing free dan chi sao (or even pre-set drills) you need the footwork to make the correct distance, otherwise you'll be over reaching. Footwork is esspecially important in defence, as you don't have a second hand to account for any 'miscalculations' Once proficient at dan chi, I've been taught one of the major points of it is footwork.
You'll only be over-reaching if you are trying to hit your partner...which is not the point of the exercise. But please try and explain the dan chi sau + stepping drill for me
We've both asked twice for the footwork pattern... don't think they're gonna tell us... the suspense is killing me!
