Kuk Sool dan bong technique is different from dan bong technique in other styles (e.g. Hapkido). The difference I'm speaking of here is the general grip and strike, where you grip the dan bong in the middle and the strike is actually two strikes -- first with one end then immediately followed by the other end. While I understand the intent behind the technique (see the staff techniques handbook for reference) and I certainly feel the pain when working under the controlled circumstances of the dojang, I wonder how well the double strike works out during the chaos of an uncontrolled situation. For instance, while working under controlled circumstances I find myself having one of three situations: 1. I succeed in making the proper double strike, 2. the first strike misses but the second strike hits, 3. the first strike hits but then "hangs up" on the striking target and thus the second strike never happens. I'm guessing we've all encountered these three situations at some point in our dan bong work. So it makes me wonder... if there's trouble making it work under controlled circumstances, will it be effective and something I could rely upon under chaotic circumstances? Are Kuk Sool's dan bong techniques being different for the sake of being different (i.e. "See? We're not Hapkido!")? Am I merely a silly DBN that doesn't quite grasp the concept yet? Is it simply a matter of "I need more practice!". I really like dan bong, the weapon itself along with the underlying theory of the weapon (e.g. you could apply the theory to using a rolled up magazine). It's a weapon I wish to become proficient in because I find it very practical. The above is something I've been wondering about. Thanx for any information or input.
Is there any other context than self defense that these skill could be meant for? They seem an relatively benign weapon compared to others. Maybe the skills are designed to teach something else!
Is that an intentional question or a rhetorical one? I'm not sure which you're intending. Nevertheless, it's a good question and I'm not sure of the answer. What I like about the weapon is there does appear to be something solid behind it, at least if you believe the hype. I haven't used it in any actual confrontations so I can't say myself, but all signs point towards it being something usable. The weapon itself is also practical and at least somewhat legal... at least you won't get as many strange looks as you would walking down the street with a sword. It's not 100% perfect there tho, because I could see someone arguing it to be a club. But then, the skills appear to be nicely transferable to other objects, like you could use a tv remote control (a long thin one), maybe a hairbrush, rolled up newspaper, flashlight, etc.. Could the skills be teaching something else? Well, being Kuk Sool is an attempt to preserve and account for the whole history of Korean martial arts, it could be an attempt to preserve that part of history... at least, given what you read in staff handbook about dan bong. I haven't learned the dan bong hyung yet so I may be overlooking something due to my lack of knowledge there. But again, if you're implying something else about the skills to be taught here, please don't imply because I'm admitting ignorance here and seeking enlightenment.
There are more than just one type of strike with the dan bong. As well as the double hit that you mention you have downward strikes with the butt of the dan bong as well as strike stabing strikes. I remember reading an article on KJN Sung Jin where he talked about the uses of the dan bong to strike various pressure points. Another use was in historical times where they would treat it in varnish (pahk dahl, i think) that would make it virtually impossible for a sword to cut through it making it a great defense weapon if attacked by a swordsman. Again these can easily be concealed and would typically be the length of the users forearm. I'll have a dig around for the article and post it if i find it.
here's an article on it. One of the oldest and most useful weapons in martial arts history is the stick. It came in all sizes, from over six feet long to less than one foot in length. In any length, sticks were powerful extensions of ancient martial artists' hands, and could be wielded by almost anyone. In the Korean martial arts, there are three types of stick training - long, medium, and short - all having their roots in Buddhist martial arts. Perhaps the most versatile of the three are the dan bong (short sticks). Historically, short sticks were first used to fend off wild animals and probably preceded the use of other types and lengths of staffs. They were weapons that could be easily found and cleverly hidden in garments. Dan bongs were especially effective for in-close fighting where practitioners could suddenly pull out hidden short sticks and disable or kill their attackers with them. In ancient times, Korean monks used two regular short sticks and a single stick, in the form of a bamboo flute. They traveled throughout the Korean countryside playing their flutes to earn food for themselves. When thieves would launch an attack upon a seemingly defenseless Buddhist monk carrying a flute, they found out the hard way the monk's flute was actually a very effective self-defense weapon. Today, short-stick training is best known within the Korean martial art kuk sool won. Kuk sool won is itself a study of many ancient Korean fighting principles, rather than a single traditional style. Sung Jin Suh, the eldest son of kuk sool founder In Hyuk Suh, has taken it upon himself to learn the practical uses for those many principles and techniques, among them the short sticks. Suh, 23, now a third-degree black belt, is the senior instructor at kuk sool's San Francisco headquarters school. He takes his short-stick training seriously and considers them one of the most effective and practical traditional martial art weapons. Short sticks can be used singly or as a pair. AU strikes are directed toward the body's sensitive pressure poets. Eighteen of the 36 pressure points used in short-stick strikes are considered lethal or killing points. Of course, they can also be disabling strikes, depending upon the intensity of the practitioner's strike. "While the objective is to look for a pressure point to strike, short sticks are practical weapons even when there isn't time to locate one," Suh explained. "The sticks are a hard striking surface that carries more leverage than an empty hand." The 18 lethal strikes are called sa hyal. When taught in kuk sool won, the emphasis is not placed on the killing aspect. Instead, the kuk sool practitioner learns a great deal of control in order to be able to use the sa hyal strikes without causing too much damage to the opponent. The 18 sa hyal strikes are: 1. -Baek hae (head) - This is a single downward strike to the top of the opponent's head. Since the top of the head is not an easy target to reach, this strike is not often used. 2. -Kaek jao in (temple) - Administered with either one or two sticks, this is a popular striking area for in-close defense. It's a horizontal blow to the temple area with the side of the stick. 3. -Chun jong (middle of the back, between the shoulder blades) - This is a straight thrust into the center of the opposition's back. 4. - Yong chun (bottom of the foot) - Another short-stick strike that is seldom used due to the obscure location of the pressure point, which is at the bottom of the foot. This is actually one of the more deadly pressure points. 5. -Kumi (solar plexus) - Although technically listed as a lethal blow, the solar plexus strike is more often thought of as a disabling strike made with a straight thrust. It knocks the breath out of attackers and leaves them defenseless. 6. -Hap kok (top of the foot) - This blow is delivered to the area just behind the opponent's toes on the top portion of the foot. Besides any lethal aspects this strike might have, it also leaves the enemy unable to put weight on the struck foot, and therefore partially defenseless. 7. -Oon moon (side of the groin) - It looks like this strike is made to the sensitive groin area, but actually it is administered to a pressure point slightly to the side of the groin. 8. -Kuk chun (armpit) - Besides being a killing point when used with the right force, this upward blow to the armpit is extremely painful and will instantly stop most attackers. 9. -Ah moon (base of the skull) - This is often seen as a knockout blow using either the side or the end of the sticks. 10. -Tae po (above the ribs) - A straight thrust into the opponent's side just above his ribs describes this fight-ending strike. 11. -In jung (base of nose) - This requires good technique and control to administer correctly. It is a blow angled slightly upwards to the base of the attacker's nose. 12. -Kaen jung (top of the shoulder) - This pressure point on the top of the shoulder can cause pain, temporarily paralyze, or kill, according to Suh. 13. -Dan jung (navel) - This pressure point is located slightly above the navel. 14. -Sim kwul - This pressure point is located at the navel. 15. -Um kwul - This point is located directly below the navel. The navel is considered to be the center of a person's ki (internal energy). 16. -Jang moon (floating rib) - This is often a straight strike to the floating rib on either side of the rib cage. 17. -Pok sang (the ankle bone) - This hard strike is made slightly below and to either side of the opposition's ankle bone. It has an instant crippling effect. 18. -Sam um kyo (inside of shin) - This final strike is made to the tendon that lies on the inside of the shin. It's another painful and crippling blow. The next important group of short-stick techniques practiced in kuk sool won are called saeng hyul. They are disabling pressure-point strikes that can cause pain, paralysis or unconsciousness. Dan bong striking techniques are quite different from other stick-fighting styles. The sticks are only 16 inches long and held in the center rather than the end. Short-stick practitioners will use their entire body weight to generate power. The wrist becomes the source of an accelerated speed that is produced with a lightning-quick snap as every blow is made. All short-stick strikes are actually double attacks. The theory is many people can absorb the first blow delivered. However, after the first strike is made, they are dazed and vulnerable to another blow administered immediately. Therefore, the first short-stick strike is always a quick glancing blow, designed to sting the enemy and put him off guard. The next strike utilizes just one stick and is intended to disable the opponent. Since only one stick is used, it is necessary to be able to turn the stick quickly and easily to make two rapid strikes with it. For that reason, the stick is held loosely against the palm of the hand. The two middle fingers grip it and keep it from flying out of the hand. Control of the stick is achieved with the thumb, forefinger and small finger. With the aid of a flexible wrist and the controlling fingers, den bong stylists can quickly change the direction of the stick and strike in rapid-fire succession with both ends. When properly done, short stick techniques are simultaneous blocks and counterattacks. Since most martial arts break fighting down into blocks and counterattacks, this short, simple weapon provides a high level of complex training. Once short-stick techniques have been learned, the practitioner will find many other items that can be utilized as makeshift weapons. A rolled magazine, newspaper, or short umbrella can effectively become a self-defense tool. A knowledge of the body's pressure points can save the defender's life in an urgent situation. Suh said den bong are excellent weapons for women, helping achieve power equal or greater than their attacker's strength. One stick is enough for effective woman's self-defense, and can be carried in a large purse without being considered a concealed weapon. They are legal to carry as long as nothing connects them together like a nunchaku. Short sticks are considered excellent defensive weapons in self-defense situations such as knife attacks. When assailants are struck on the knife hand with a short stick or its equivalent, they will often drop their weapon. If struck hard enough, the knife hand may even break. Pinpoint accuracy isn't important, as long as the knuckles or small bones in the back of the hand are the targets. When the assailants loose their knife, the stick can be used to disable them. Even when an attacker is stronger, the stick can become an equalizer. Just remember, walk softly and carry a short stick
Oh I know there's a LOT more that one can do with dan bong. I've Googled all over for articles, which tends to turn up information from Hapkido, Kuk Sool Won, and Hwarangdo. I have a copy of the Tedeschi Hapkido book which has a section on dan bong. A few other books and videos as well. I know how versatile dan bong can be. But I'm trying to stay focused on the art I study, so that's why I'm asking about the Kuk Sool style of dan bong work. Speaking of pressure point strikes, one exercise we do with dan bong is to perform Maek Chi Ki with dan bong. But that's where I'll often find the double strike problems I mentioned in the original post (problem #2 and #3). So going back to my original question, just how practical (feasible?) is that double strike in a more chaotic situation? Or again, is it simply a matter of needing a lot more practice? Close. From the staff handbook: Staff handbook says 33 centimeters, but I've seen the measurements vary from 8 inches up to 14 or even 16 inches. Supposedly the good rule of thumb is the inner length of your forearm, so as to allow concealment up your sleeve. Would it be this article: http://www.lowestoftkuksoolwon.co.uk/archives_main.asp?ArticleID=19 or perhaps this one: http://www.lowestoftkuksoolwon.co.uk/archives_main.asp?ArticleID=20 Thanx for the input.
Seems Unknown Entity and I were writing our responses at the same time. The above URL is to the same article that you posted. I'm glad you referred to this article, as I read it again and caught the references to the other strike types... I missed that in my previous readings of the article. So in this article it does discuss more strikes than the "double strike". It does talk about striking with the side or the butt end of the dan bong. So at least Kuk Sool isn't married to only working with the double strike. Still tho, my original question hasn't been answered... how practical (feasible? realistic?) will it be to perform the double strike in a chaotic situation?
it's not written in stone that you would have to use a double stike in those situations. A single strike is still in Kuk Sool. I personally would prefer using it in more of a "poke" fashion. Hitting pressure points like under the armpit, throat, temple etc. it's also a good weapon for putting peopel in painfull joint locks. we did a weapons seminar a few years ago which covered a lot of this. good fun
Could you then say I'm getting a biased or limited view of dan bong in Kuk Sool because all the official Kuk Sool literature and such spends so much time and effort emphasizing the double strike?
well I don't want to go around saying that but there is a lot of stuff in Kuk Sool that is not written down in a book for us to buy. There's stuff that certain masters have been taught and you might be lucky enough to learn this. It would make sense though that KSW would have a single strike. In the form (if I remember correctly) there are different types of strikes.
you can never get across all the aplications of a weapon in a few articles, the double strike is a valid and effective use of the dan bong but so are all the other stirkes allready mentioned, including the not so often seen aplication of joint locking that mung kee pointed out. i wouldn't say you were getting a biased or limited view, i would say that you knowledge of the dan bong has now been increased.
