Damo is NOT the Mother of All Kung Fu

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by soggycat, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    There is a continuing and pervasive myth that ALL Kung Fu started with Indian Buddhist monk Boddhidharma ( aka Damo) teaching the monks in Shaolin Temple in China ( 520AD ie BCE) some Meditation techniques, Bone marrow washing and 18 Lohan exercises.
    From there all forms of Kung Fu sprang forth .

    This is utter rubbish.
    No one denies what Boddhidarma did for Shaolin, but those who propagate this myth ignore officially endorsed historical/ archaeological records that indicate Kung Fu was practised some 1-2000 years before Damo arrived. ( see links below).

    Before Damo’s arrival, all Kung Fu at Shaolin was Internal Martial Arts.
    Damo’s influence over the centuries caused people to practise originally internal styles, in an external way.
    That’s why today most Shaolin styles are external and emphasize strength, endurance and pain conditioning….things “ not required” in strict Internal Martial Arts.


    Before Buddhism arrived in China circa 100AD, ALL Kung Fu was Taoist and dominant in the following mountain temples:
    Wudang, Ermei ( Ormei), Huashan, Zhongnan and Kundu ( spelling ?)
    Lao Tzu, who wrote the Tao Te Ching, is a patriach ( but not founder) of Taoism was born 550BC ie. BCE.
    By then the I Ching ( Taoist book) had already been around at least 1000 years.
    Mongol invader Emperor Kublai Khan circa 1300AD favoured Buddhism over Taoism , and thus suppressed its growth.
    His rule allowed Shaolin styles to flourish at the expense of Taoist styles, who had to practise under ground.
    Part of the “ secrecy” tradition that is still present today.

    People are also forgetting that there are other Kung Fu styles that are neither Taoist or Buddhist in origin. Eg. Baji and Piqua.
    Then there are the family non-temple styles.

    Tai Chi’s Taoist origins are traced to circa 1300AD.
    Hsing Yi is prediminantly Taoist, but might have some early Shaolin connection alos dates back to 1300AD.
    Whilst early Shaolin was fairly Internal, it grew more and more external by the century.
    Bagua’s ( Pakua) main figure is Dong Hai Chuan circa 1850 AD.
    We know he is not the founder, because he learnt it from 2 Taoist priests, who had been practising this secretly transmitted-thru-the-temples art for hundreds maybe up to 2000 years earlier .


    What often irks me is the preponderance of published literature, print and web, that continue to propagate this “ Damo brought Kung Fu to China “ story.
    Most are written by Westerners, some even by Chinese …but many just borrow from the published works of others about the Damo story, and so inadvertenlty propagte a mistruth.

    If the myth is true why is it Kung Fu did not flourish and develop into the highly sophisticated forms and varieties in the India of today ?
    :rolleyes:

    Comments welcome !



    There was Kung Fu before Damo arrived at Shaolin:
    http://www.shaolin.com/page.asp?s=shaolin&content_id=1011

    http://chineseculture.about.com/cs/travelguide/a/shaolintemple.htm
     
  2. matreyia

    matreyia New Member

    You're right...

    Kung fu/Gung Fu/ Wushu or martial arts existed way before Bodhidharma arrived. I am also at a loss as to why many think that Damo brought it from India. He just taught them some exercises to stay alert in order to meditate. (supposedly)
     
  3. Matt_Bernius

    Matt_Bernius a student and a teacher

    The only point that I question with thisis the supisition that the arts that existed before Boddhidharma were internal. It's pretty well documented that Longfist predated him. And in fact Long Fist was used as the basis for root Temple Boxing and the inital Shaolin Animals (crane in particular).

    While I do't deny that there were possibly high/internal arts being cultivated at the same time, I find it dubious to suppose that External Arts developed only after Boddhidharma's visit.

    As far as how the myth of Boddhidharma got started, that's mainly a cultural thing. And it's not restricted to the CMA.

    - Matt
     
  4. bcullen

    bcullen They are all perfect.

    Nice post!

    Actually the Indian fighting arts are still around but didn't evolve much...During British occupation some of them were all but wiped out. As to why they didn't flourish, good question. Every nation has at some point developed a fighting art. The rapid technical developments in the west stunted their growth and pushed western MA into obscurity (why fight with a sword when you can shoot?). Wars, foreign occupations, totalitarian regimes, et. al., tend to either spur or surpress the MA. The other question is how much training, if any, did Damo have?

    Most things are put in motion long before the sages and scribes become aware of them. Damo (Ta' Mo, Bodhidharma etc..) was an important figure in the temples rise. The temples often served as refuge and facilitated an exchange of knowledge, similar to modern universities. Where did you learn this? From the Shaolin monks... So many things that were not of Shaolin origin took the Shaolin name. People like to simplify things and a good central figure helps.

    Interesting point about Kublai. The mongols had their own religion but wouldn't interfere with local religious practices, kind of hedging the bets in case they're wrong about the afterlife. But philosophy was not a strong suit for them and what they didn't understand they destroyed. Hey, it took a Chinese advisor to convince Ghengis not to kill all the farmers, and that they were somehow useful to him.
     
  5. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    whoa thats a new one to me lol. he spread the word north to china about buddhism but not MA. the yellow emperor is given credit for many things in china, one of them being martial arts. this is around 2000bc (maybe 1500), maybe even earlier! but i think its 2000 bc. anyways, he is hmong/chinese descent.

    this martial arts form is then traced back to the indian artform which is 5000bc or earlier! you can do a much better study i think elseware hehe.
     
  6. Hugh

    Hugh New Member

    I thought it was the Indian King Ashoka who spread Buddhism to China through war. As i also understood it, Da Mao came to China after that.
     
  7. jroe52

    jroe52 Valued Member

    your right it was ashoka.

    martial arts history though had been practicing prior to that. maybe that is when it took a major leep and became more open handed/kicks?
     
  8. gerard

    gerard Valued Member

    Actuallly martial arts and qigong in particular had origin in shamanic practices closely related to Nature and its elements. There is an excellent book of the historian and philosopher "Eliade Mircea" (I can't remember the title right now) which explores this subject and it's intimately related to Qigong, which is the root of all internal martial arts.

    Regards, Gerard.
     
  9. gerard

    gerard Valued Member


    This is the book I was talking about:


    Mircea, E. (1964). Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy. London: Routledge and Kegan Paul.


    Qian bei, Gerard.
     
  10. Wanderer

    Wanderer Valued Member

    Good posts.

    Martial arts in Shaolin is over 2000 years (circa 2500) old.

    Damo is the forefather of Zen Buddhism (circa 1500 years old).

    Daoism or the theory of Tai Ji yin yang is over 4250 years old.

    The first documeted war in China was between the Yellow emperor and Tzu Yuo. They used clubs to fight and animal skins for camoflage. Fighting was in large numbers of people in groups. They used fog and smoke as covers. They timed their fights. They picked the places to fight.

    Would you say that fighting arts started then?

    As soon as people knew how to use hands to fetch food, he would also use them to fight for one reason or another. There are graves over 6000 years old in China.

    Would you say CMA at least 6000 years old?
     
  11. gerard

    gerard Valued Member

    Way before then. Just read Mircea's book.
     

Share This Page