Anyone have any tips with regards to preventing arthritis and joint damage resulting from things like shikan ken and koppo ken? I'm not so worried about injuring myself during kata or randori, I mean to cut with them so I don't lay into the strikes then, but for things like bagwork and conditioning, does anyone have any safety ideas?
Start off with something soft like a cusion then move to a heavy bag over time. Go light first to make sure your form is correct. Do not over do things. I went overboard once hitting a bag with my finger tips and went too hard on it and probably for too long. As a result I think I did something to one of the nerves and had to put up with one of my fingers refusing to relax or go into neutral position for about two hours, it sorted itself out in the end. Soft and light. I suppose it is about training the nervous system too, bit like weightlifting or training flexibility. It has to be trained to support the load, so to speak, if it's not used to being activated in that way. Also you probably don't need hands of stone for a lot of soft targets just proper aligment and strength.
My advice is don't. There really is no need for such training but if you really want to go with dean's idea, a soft cushion.
I disagree, there is a need you just have to be sensible. Your body needs to know what it is like to hit something and you can't train that properly by just using your dojo buddy in kata. How can you expect to deliver a blow with something like shikan ken if you are not actually used to hitting something correctly and consistently? Not only having to deal with the weight of your own body but also the weight of whatever you're hitting. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. You can have the best taijutsu in the world but if your "weapons" are not up to the task then there is little point.
I agree, if you think there is a risk of you getting it then why do it? also are you looking at hitting it a moderate amount or are you going to go stupid and try to get fingers like Takamatsu? Will you really be hitting that much that you will have a risk? I would suggest you look at keeping the hand flexible if you feel the need to do it, also ensure your diet is high in vitamin D so you body absorbs some of the calcium and you dont get calcium growths on your knucles.
There is a difference though with practicing hitting consistantly to learn how to strike and continually striking until your hands rot, have a word with Badger about Mat.....
to be honest Ratty if you think you are going to get artritis from punching then you must be doing a stupid amount....Takamatsu-esq atemi training.
why? do you think you can only get artritis doing one type of strike? all our strikes can cause health issues..
My point is maybe he views certain strikes as being more at risk i.e. they have a greater chance of damage becuase they use weaker structures. Three fingers are weaker than a fist and easier to damage unless you've trained them?
So we should just stick to Fudoken? As everything esle is more at risk? Maybe we shouldn't even train fudoken? I mean if you've never been taught to punch then there's a good chance you'll hurt your wrist.
Well if you have to ask if you are going to get injured then yes, maybe you should look at your own training.
Personally I want to knock the tops off glass bottles like some of the Karate guys How many free drinks do you reckon you'd get for that?
I disagree. You do not need to condition your hands at all. Ideally you would always have some kind of weapon at your disposal whether it be a rock, a pen or a belt buckle. These weapons will always be harder than your hands regardless of how much you condition them and if they break, no big deal, just pick up another one. Your hands on the other hand stop working when they break :hat: Your hands are a tool, not a weapon.
Then why the hell train hand strikes? :bang: I'll say again I'm not on about conditioning to the level where you're damaged. As I said sensible training. Again: How can you expect to deliver a blow with something like shikan ken if you are not actually used to hitting something correctly and consistently? Not only having to deal with the weight of your own body but also the weight of whatever you're hitting. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. You can have the best taijutsu in the world but if your "tools" are not up to the task then there is little point. See changed weapons to tools and it still applies. Also this whole idea of relying on external devices/weapons as a reason for not bothering is a bit daft because for a start you can’t guarantee there will be something at your disposal, your hands are never far from you, and you can't guarantee you will be able to deploy whatever you chose to use or have on you. So while the idea of using environmental and improvised weapons is a good one doing and relying on that at the exclusion of basic physical training is rather silly. Also you have to look at things from a legal point of view. Using something as a weapon is often frowned upon by law enforcement this will be doubly so if the circumstances didn't require you to use said improvised weapon, in other words your response wasn't appropriate for the threat. Yes I know our aim is to get home but legality is something you have to consider when looking at things from a self defence point of view and after all that’s what we’re talking about here aren’t we? I mean we don’t compete, we’re not on the battle fields of feudal Japan so really that’s what we’re talking about as far as real world application goes.
One last point! Bringing a weapon to bear in a situation, when it’s not warranted, can unnecessarily escalate it and make things far worse. Of course it is possible for it to have a positive effect but this type of thing is something that should be weighed up and not be an automatic response to conflict.
Then you might as well skip Gyokko Ryû and Kotô Ryû altogether... It's okay if you think that way, but one look at the techniques of the schools we study should tell you otherwise... If one does not condition ones hands, as you suggest, one will not be able to use them the way they are used in for example the two above mentioned schools. I would really like to see you strike someone with a proper shikan ken (and doing damage to the opponent, not yourself!) without any prior hand conditioning... But then again, Takamatsu sensei didn't condition his hands. Oh wait. He did... Okay, but his student Hatsumi sensei didn't condition his hands? Oh wait... he did. Hmm. But surely Hatsumi sensei's students did not condition their hands? Oh wait... they did... Funny.
Hmmm, you must do a different Gyokko and Koto ryu because i don't seen any techniques that require conditioning. Right, if Takamatsu and Hatsumi jumped off a bridge would you follow them I have conditioned my hands and i think it's stupid :hat:
