Currently Doing Japanese Jujutsu, but still not sure...

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by reneg, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. Okinawanbudo

    Okinawanbudo New Member

    Dean
    That is a very fair point and would not disagree with that. Best I qualify it with something like provided its a reputable and tested system.

    Chris Norman
     
  2. righty

    righty Valued Member

    I think you guys are reading too much into a single video. I'm not saying what they are not teaching is not crap but it's a single video not the entire art. Granted it's not something I'd feel comfortable putting up on the internet but still.

    I also have no problem with people calling their art "Japanese JuJutsu" as a nod to where the ultimate roots of their art and to use as a practical term to differentiate from BJJ even when it's a modern style that has borrowed from other arts. I mean really, what else are they going to call it? As long as they admit it's a modern style and that it has evolved from a range of influences and can identify those influences I really don't see a problem. I lot of this is just arguing semantics IMO.

    But all of this has come off topic from the original question. The main point for me is that the OP said he is on a crappy six month contract and he has to inform them TWO MONTHS in advance if he wants to leave. Now let's start talking about how dodgy that is.
     
  3. reneg

    reneg New Member

    Heh, lot of confusing answers here. Some say it might work, some say it's not even jujitsu. I just can't seem to figure this out.

    Even tho I might ask the same questions over and over again it's just cause I feel I need a more direct answer to my questions.
    Even tho you can't practice this style on your own, you might be able to say if this looks good or bad. I know Judo will be good to practice, but I kinda like the idea of Jujitsu cause of its atemi and kicking. Even tho I favor throws I would like to mix it up with strikes to make it easier. Jujitsu uses atemi to break the opponents balance right? Judo uses a different way. So the arts are pretty alike, but which one works the best in self defense? I got no idea so feel free to throw in some more answers.

    The style they practice are practiced all over my country and is the "leading" style of jujitsu in Norway. Like I said earlier though, it's not pure Goshindo, on their webpage they say it is a mix between Goshindo and Can-Ryu Jujitsu. I'm gonna post a few links of videos.

    Here is a video of my sensei doing a demo:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwaXl_PzqVU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwaXl_PzqVU[/ame]

    another video of my sensei doing a demo:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNJDT32wJrI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNJDT32wJrI[/ame]

    and the video that got posted earlier:
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on-vazVtXsg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on-vazVtXsg[/ame]
     
  4. righty

    righty Valued Member

    This is why I don't like demos. You just can't tell from them. Often the most effective technique look horrible in demos because they simply are neat or don't display athleticism and so don't look good. You can great great martial artists who try to do a demo and it looks horrible. Then you get great demo artists who can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

    We can't judge from those videos. We have to see a class and see how those techniques are trained and tested. Do you spar with them? Do they work in situational self defence scenarios you set up? Do you get to 'play' with the techniques and scenarios at all?

    It's this play that looks horrible on videos and you would never put in a highlight reel but it's what is most important.
     
  5. reneg

    reneg New Member

    Most of the time we do drills and situational self defense scenarios. Some randori/sparring. So far we've been doing some throws, joint locks, takedowns, striking, kicking and ground fighting. Actually we have done a lot of ground fighting. Randori where we start from our knees and fight on the floor. We have had whole classes just focusing on striking techniques and drills with striking, throws and locks mixed in them.

    All of this seems good but I am just not sure if I would be able to do this in a real life situation since there isn't too much sparring. That is really why I wonder if I want to continue or start with Judo which has a lot of sparring.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  6. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Just go and do Judo for a semester and find out for yourself.
     
  7. Alansmurf

    Alansmurf Aspire to Inspire before you Expire Supporter

    Agreed....
     
  8. Devon Smith

    Devon Smith New Member

    James, if you've only been exposed to the basic waza or even in the more "advanced" techniques in the Indianapolis offshoot of Hakkoryu, you're impressions may be correct about their techniques resembling only the Goshin'yo no te, I have no experience with them. My comment was based on my longtime experience with mainline Hakkoryu and two schools of Daitoryu.

    Devon
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    There's lots of pointers in the demos that the functional ability just isnt there.

    However thats my opinion, not Truth with a capital T, the best thing anyone who feels unsure about there MA can do, is try the judo/BJJ/MMA etc, and see how they feel after a few hours of randori/etc and work from there.



    Agreed
     
  10. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    In fairness I don't have much of a problem with contracts as long as the training is good. People can be terrible for dropping out of martial arts and they have to take care of the overheads somehow. I've trained at a decent club that had a minimum year's contract.
     
  11. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool the merc with the mouth MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Our place has the same, fees for leaving early cover the direct debit firms fees and one full months fees, that waivered for job loss or moving away. and we offer a full month free trial to make sure they fully know what there getting into.

    We get to offer more classes, and better facilities, which means better retention of people and people training more.
     
  12. Jumonkan

    Jumonkan Valued Member

    That's what I was drawing my impression from. Hobbs received his Shihan ranking from Okayama Sensei himself and I believe most of Hobbs training took place at the Hombu. Knowing this I assumed (probably incorrectly) that all Hakko ryu is similar to the flavor I have experienced. I was exposed to Shodan GI and Nidan GI on a teaching level but I've only seen videos of San, Yon and I've watched a few Shihan Gi level but never actually trained in them. I left the Dentokan group before I actually tested above green belt I found the kata to static and mechanical. As I said fair enough, in the future I'll denote better in statements make.

    James
     
  13. rne02

    rne02 Valued Member

    >>I'm currently doing Goshindo Jujitsu at my local dojo and been doing that >>for 4 months. I really like it, but some sessions there is way too little >>focus on techniques and a lot more on having fun and sometimes even >>have "competitions" in some sort of coordination.

    You have to bear in mind that your instructor will have seen a monumental amount of people come through his (or her) door, a large percentage will have fallen by the wayside long before they ever started to get anywhere near the higher Kyu Grades. He (or she) will be justifiably weary of investing too much time into students unless he/she knows that you are serious, something which will take you a couple of years to show. So bear with it, you will start to get technical when the time is right, just keep turning up and keep showing you are enthusiastic and serious in your intent to make this a a” journey” rather than a 6 month fad.

    >>How is the sessions at your dojo? Do you do randori?
    We only have adult students, so there are no “games”, so it is usually down to business. However, even though I am only an assistant instructor, I have wasted enough of my time with people that you think are there for the long haul only to see them disappear after six weeks, I am therefore now of the opinion that you have to prove to me you are serious and you do that by passing our first three Kyu grades. You stick around long enough to do that, then I really get involved with you. But that’s just me :)

    We do Randori, but that doesn’t come in until the 4th Grade.

    >>And is it effective in self defense/Street Fight?
    Who knows? Without going into the street and deliberately starting fights so you can test every single technique no one is ever going to be able to tell you that. Plus everyone is different, techniques you may be good at others may struggle with and vice versa, so no one can so "you must learn technique A B or C as they are effective" as they maybe not suit you, you may prefer other techniques. At the end of the day you know your strengths, so it will be down to you to decide which techniques you chose for the street and which you decide are not for you.

    >>I really want the martial arts "journey" I'm currently on be useful so if >>Jujitsu isn't good for a self defence situation I might start doing Judo since >>I know there is a lot of "alive" training there.
    Judo is a sport, not a self defence. The only “alive” training is learning to out score your opponent so you can win a plastic trophy. If you are attacked in the street the outcome will not be decided by Judges based on scoring. Ju-Jitsu is not a sport, the purpose of the techniques is not to score points, it is to either a) kill (Self explanatory) b) maim (if you break his arm he can’t hit you with it anymore) or c) disable (immobilise) an opponent.

    Have fun :)
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Judoka can do exactly the same thing, the only difference being they can pull their moves off against a fully resisting opponent with a high skill level. Without such a check and balance in place you cannot state (a), (b) or (c) with any level of confidence

    The "sport vs street" argument is not an argument anymore - it is like debating with flat-earthers....frustrating and ultimately pointless because the belief is not based in logic nor can it be cogently articulated
     
  15. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    All Judo books teach you how to execute a perfect "hip throw" but I haven't seen any Judo book that teach you how to use your hip throw against a boxer when he tries to knock your head off.

    There are definitely something missing between sport training and street training.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The "sport vs street" argument is about methodology and intent and has less to do with the idiosyncracies of the arts involved. Judo is just the example used to illustrate a specific point
     
  17. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    seriously? the contract automatically renews and it takes two months to terminate?

    you should immediately leave this "dojo" for the contract issues alone.
     
  18. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    Maybe there is a different reason your students are disappearing after six weeks.

    I would hope that if you are charging your students money for your training that you wouldn't hold back training them to the best of your ability.

    Maybe I read that wrong but it didn't sound good...at least to me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  19. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    You can test techniques without having to go and start fights in the street.

    also, are you saying that your students will be able to "choose" the techniques they will use when in a self defense situation?
     
  20. righty

    righty Valued Member

    Really?

    You say this yet you have admitted to almost complete ignorance and absence of any actual training in Judo. Just because YOU haven't read it in a BOOK doesn't mean anything.
     

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