cung le vs frank shamrock

Discussion in 'Fight Discussions' started by Patrick_baji, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. shift

    shift Valued Member

    All I have to say is great performance by both. It could have gone either way, especially if Frank used his ground game.

    Cung's stand up is top notch as he demonstrates time and time again. All MMA matches should be this exciting.

    I haven't seen competitive stand up battle like this since Spencer Fisher vs Sam Stout 1 and 2

    Definitely Cung's toughest battle. He should stand to learn a lot from this fight to prepare him for his next test.

    Hopefully he gets 2 more fights before he rematches Frank. Hopefully Cung will get some smart ground fighters. I want to see Cung on his back.
  2. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    I suppose it depends on what he does contract wise. If the UFC take him on maybe Franklin? If not I'd say Trigg is pretty likely.
  3. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Either way I think it will definitely inject some excitement into the UFC. In a way it reminds me of the earlier UFC's when MMA wasn't refined as it is now... people came in with far more distinct backgrounds and differences than generally what we see today.

    Whatever happens it'll be good for the fans.
  4. Patrick_baji

    Patrick_baji Valued Member

    I agree Cung now needs some good ground fighters/good wrestlers to put him down on his back and see what he can do then coz even the standup fighters with the best takedown defense (chuck liddell/crocop) still get taken down from time to time but we all know liddell and crocop are still more than match on their backs - Cung on the other hand, we havn't seen at all.

    But yes, he's striking is top notch when it comes to the MMA doubts there. I say give cung a good grappler like trigg, and then maybe someone else then start pitting him against the best of the best such as Matt Lindland or Anderson Silva.
  5. wazzabi

    wazzabi sushi eater

    when Gonzaga threw the kick on Randy it didn't connect cleanly. also, Gonzaga was gassed when he was throwing that kick, so it likely didn't have the power it had when he knocked out CroCop. he did, however manage to break Randy's arm with one of his kicks.

    Cung Le should fight in the UFC.
  6. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Now that's a match up I'd like to see. :)
  7. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Cung did a great job in this fight. He's a great fighter and his skills are top notch, but that's not what won him this fight. What won him this fight was his excellent strategy. He really stayed relaxed and played a thinking man's game through the whole bout. He really showed that his is a top caliber champion, who could really have a chance at facing world class guys (like Anderson Silva) at some point. I don't feel he could face Anderson at this point. Anderson is too good and too experienced and wouldn't make the same mistake that Shamrock did (to stay standing with him).

    Cung really showed composure though. He didn't get suckered in to playing Shamrocks game, he fought smart, saved energy, did damage.

    Top notch. I just can't say it enough.
  8. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Trigg would be a great match for Cung Le at this point. I'd like to see that fight. I don't think he'd fare well against Lindland at this point because the fight would definitely go to the ground. Cung Le has demonstrated good takedown defense, but we're talking about Matt Lindland here.

    Anderson Silva could be an interesting match, but would probably end by submission in in short order once Silva managed to get it to the ground (even if he had to pull guard to do it, which he probably wouldn't). Once Cung Le improves his ground skills, who knows?

    But man, Frank Shamrock can definitely take a hit (although I guess we did already know that--now we've been reminded).
  9. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Merge with the other thread in MMA discussion?
  10. Patrick_baji

    Patrick_baji Valued Member

    where's domino these days? he was the one blabbing about how cung wouldn't even be worth anderson silva's time...
  11. shift

    shift Valued Member

    I don't think Trigg is a good match for Cung. I'd say get GSP up to 185 and put GSP in there with him. Cung's Wrestling is top notch, and his striking is good. If anyone can overwhelm a take down defense it's GSP.

    Since that will never happen, I'd have to look at the other strike force middle weights and see how they fight. Triggs take downs would get stuffed easily by Cung in my opinion.

    Need someone more crafty
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2008
  12. Elemental One

    Elemental One Valued Member

    That was an awesome fight, I was cheering for both guys although I had Frank as the favorite.
  13. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary


    Fight number 6 and I still think the whole thing's dodgy. In all 6 fights (Though I've only seen highlights of one of them) I've counted a grand total of 2 takedown attempts.

    Bearing in mind here that bar Altman (Who Cung beat in San Shou so should KNOW he can't stand with him) All of the guys he's fought have a majority of their wins on the ground.

    And only two of them thought to attempt even a single takedown?

    I know Cung Le is a great wrestler and all but I wasn't aware that when you hit a high level in wrestling you got granteed the Forget how to even attempt to shoot or trip from the clinch - This ability has a 3 meter AOE centred on caster and once played remains in affect for up to 5 5 minute rounds special ability.

    If I had to guess, I personally think the promoters for these fights are taking aside Cung Le's opponents and quietly telling them if they want to advance their career or some such, then they need to not try to take Cung le down. I really doubt it would be afirst for that sort of thing to happen in the fight game either.

    Oh and the whole I'm Frank Shamrock and I dont NEED to take Cung Le down because I can fight as well as him on my feet! With my whole 3 wins out of 23 from striking and 20 by submission!" Reeked of WWE. To rephrase it:

    "I'm going to say in advance I'm going to fight like a moron because everyone knows I'm proud and angry, because I'm an angry bad guy that means I'm stupid. There, now no one will wonder as to why I'm fighting like this any more so it won't look at all suspiscious. Oops, pretend I didn't say that last bit".
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2008
  14. nready

    nready Verifying DMI pool....

    LOL! Yep, that is what I was thinking as well. I say if they do this to much, have the opponent always fight Cung stand up just really makes me think his ground is not very good.

    They will see that the fights are some what controlled by the promoters. It to me make the fight game look bad, get someone to fight Cung on the ground.

    I still wonder what they could be thinking as ground fighters, I figure it goes something like this, we will pay you this much if you beat Cung stand up.
  15. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    I thought it was a decent fight but I was expecting more TBH. It looked like Le let Frank back into the fight in the third round a little cos in the 2nd he was almost hitting him at will. I was a little dissapointed with Le's movement and hands compared to his kboxing days, he seemed to reply on his kicks a great deal and while his kicks are superb and did the job in this case he can't rely on them too much against a better takedown artist. Someone like Lindland or Henderson would soon get him down if he kicked as much as he did in that fight I think.

    As an aside everyone seems to be saying Frank should have got him down but how good is Frank on the ground these days? He was dominated by Renzo who, I think, would have submitted him had Frank not opted to get himself disqualified, and thats the only time we've really seen his ground game in years. I guess cung's no slouch and has trained hard at it, as well as having a wrestling background. Maybe standing with Cung wasn't bravado, maybe Frank honestly thought that a KO was his best chance of winning.
  16. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    Le's got some strong kicks, no doubt. However, in the hypothetical Anderson Silva match, I'm not sure it would be enough to keep from getting beaten up with punches and knees. And Silva's got great movement, too. I mean, I'd pay to watch the fight, but I'd have Le as the underdog by a bit.

    I'd like to see Le fighting on the ground just so I can guage how good or bad he is there. Even if he just decides to take someone down for some GNP, and works to avoid triangles and such. Still, he's winning with what he's got now, no reason to change it yet.

    I'm not sure Frank could have gotten him to the ground if he wanted to. I consider Le's takedowns (and defense) supperior, especially now that Shamrock's fighting with virtually no knees left.

    You could see he was hurt at the end of the third. After one of those kicks he took with his right arm, he dropped that arm down to his side and backed off. The next time Le threw a kick, Frank decided to block it with his left palm. I remember thinking at the time, "Hm, that's funny", and when he dropped to a knee before making it to his corner I was pretty sure he was done.

    As for who's next...? Baroni would be a gimme. So would Joe Riggs, a name that's been thrown around on Sherdog. Renzo might not be a bad choice, but if he can't get the fight to the ground I could see maybe a TKO. Maybe Lawler or Ninja? Trigg sounds good, too. Hard to say. Mmmm... Trigg to test his ground game, Lawler for another standup affair. Take your pick, either fight could be interesting.

    Outside of EXC, I'd like to see him against Franklin, because I think that's the most competitive matchup. I just see him loosing too easily to Silva, Lindland or Henderson. Bisping, Akiyama or Dennis Kang might be other interesting matchups.
  17. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Yeah Le VS Kang would be an interesting match up.
  18. nready

    nready Verifying DMI pool....

    That would be a nice one.

    The fight with Shamrock was a good fight. Cung will probably win against Kang.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2008
  19. Rhea

    Rhea Laser tag = NOT MA... Supporter

    Two threads merged and left in Fight Discussions. :)
  20. Tom O'Brien

    Tom O'Brien Valued Member

    Shamrock v Le

    Anyone know where I can see this one. I heard it was a good fight and that Frank lost because he chose to kick with Le.


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