Cui Zhongsan, Ever worked with him?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by bmeeks0, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. bmeeks0

    bmeeks0 New Member

    Hey everybody,
    I'll be making my official introduction soon but wanted to get this posted first.

    Has anyone here worked with Cui Zhongsan? I'm trying to figure out what kind of skill he has. I may have an opportunity to work with him soon and I'm trying to get an idea if it will be worthwhile.

  2. Slovenly Zhang

    Slovenly Zhang Valued Member

    Why listen to what others say?
    Go along, meet the man and see for yourself. You might just like it.
  3. bmeeks0

    bmeeks0 New Member

    I don't have a lot of cash at the moment so I have to be picky about where I spend it. I'm pretty sure I am going to meet him though.:bow1:
  4. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    Any teacher/school of repute will always offer a free trial lesson. :)
  5. bmeeks0

    bmeeks0 New Member

    I've gone to the school and they do some very good form work there. Mr.Cui visits from China and after about 15 years he says they are just now getting ready for push hands so they don't know any. He isn't around all the time.
  6. Slovenly Zhang

    Slovenly Zhang Valued Member

    Um, so someone is running the school for him in his absence, though they are not yet ready to learn push-hands - much less work that comes after it?

    No matter what the teachers skill, if he is not around, you won't manifest it yourself.
  7. bmeeks0

    bmeeks0 New Member

    I come from a school that is very focused on the Chuan in Tai Chi Chuan. At the school in question they do very good form work. I don't need him to teach me push hands, I just think its a little fishy for them to have waited around 15 years before starting push hands. I have a push hands group in the area that I go to for that kind of work.

    I guess I'm curious about the guy. I can't find that much info on him online.
  8. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Why NOT listen to what others say?

    There is a technique, called separating people from the rational consensus, which is used by a wide variety of people:

    Cults use it, to make people feel that only their personal experience matters -which is neat, because cults also specialise in getting you to experience things falsely - even visions, deep emotional senses, perceptual warping. Emotionally manipulating people, then telling them that all that matters is what THEY think, is a control tactic - if I can make you believe that, then when I get you to believe my lie, you yourself validate my lie as truth from your own 'personal experience.'

    Politicians use it - they use it absoloutely blatantly, saying things like 'Statistics don't mean much to people, what matters is that they FEEL safer on the streets at night.'

    Well no - what matters is the truth, not personal experience or emotional impressions. What matters is how many crimes ARE being commited, or whether that guru really IS Jesus re-born, capable of miracles.

    Separating us from the rational consensus means eliminating the only real means we have of gathering information free from personal bias and influence; the rational consense comes up with methods and standards of proof that ALL people can see.

    That's why it's always been a lie - a big, black lie, when people have stated that the only way to see if a martial arts teacher is good is to go and see them in person - that's a lie. Even the worst teachers have students who think they are great - so that tells us immediately that you can't possibly, legitimately, say that that primary criteria is going to see them yourself.

    All of us can probably look back on things we believed, were sure of, then later realised were BS. Why? Because we were emotionally tied to the belief, and trusted our individual perception to be proof.

    I can assess most martial artists within CMA, because I have a lot of experience, even way past my own skill level. I can look at a fake-Shaolin monk and see how poor their wushu is, because I saw world class wushu several times a week for years. But someone else would be, in fact ARE, gobsmacked and over awed by the wushu I'd consider so-so.

    I couldn't evaluate real Okinawan karate from Japanese influenced karate, though, because that isn't my area if expertise.

    There simply is no way a beginner can assess if a teacher is authentic - they only have their common sense, to tell them if the teacher is clearly a joker.

    By the same token, it is, and always has been, a lie, a cheat,and a cowardly fraud, for people to claim that their level not only can, but indeed 'should' be proved by people going to their class and fighting with them.

    Even in China it didn't work like that - people's level was proved via rational consensus, in that case numerous fights amongst peers - the equivalent to competition wins in our day and age.

    That is now twisted to use as a defence by people who claim special level, but never prove it in any way - they simply claim that any one doubting it must go down and see them - which doesn't make any sense; it's the quality of the opponents that people fight that matters, not that they are doubters... just as in Fearless Jet Li has to fight Master CHan, not Master Chan's godson who reminds him that he hasn't fought Master Chan.

    Whales have tiny eyes and ears - but they can see far underwater and hear whales on the other side of the Earth... it's not 'making bigger' or widening our experience/minds that counts; it's making our understanding/awareness more subtle - and a big aspect of that is to be aware that we can't really trust ourselves completely - that's why we work together to compare experience and educate one another as to what really is the right way to gather information.

    We can find out if we will enjoy the class - but finding out how good the teacher really is depends on us - if we have deepexperience in the area, then we can - but how many people here could tell if a particular physics odd-bod is a genius or a mad man? We rely on the consensus of the other physicists and experts, and more importantly, on the methods of impartial, IMPERSONAL proof that they put forward to allow physicists to prove and present their theories. They don't say 'if you don't believe I'm a genius, come down and do something smarter than me...'

    In short- yeah, ask about people; gather information from the consensus. Every fraud has several students; and some frauds have thousands - every one of those students 'went to see for themselves'.
  9. Unfortunatelly I am just answering this question now! I was not member of this website before today. Master Cui Zhong San is one of the Greatest Yang Taijiquan Master in the world. I had private lessons from him in China many times. I know this master for a long time and he is a very honest man, simple and inteligent. I recommend his classes for any serious practitioner of martial arts and health arts. He was 3 times Taijiquan chinese champion and he is a very high level Master in the Taijiquan history.

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