crosstraining

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by matsloth, Sep 30, 2003.

  1. matsloth

    matsloth New Member

    hi just sitting here reading a copy of budo international reading of these stylist who are black belt 5th dan this art and 4th dan that,and wondering if by training in 8/9 styles to high dan grades makes much difference .you might say derr thicky of cause it does ,but what im saying is if you dedicate yourself to 1 style and train in it for the rest of your training life and take a little from others makeing you a specailist in that style give you a higher skill level ,i think what im trying to say is like the old saying jack of all trades and expert in none ,you may ask why im asking ,well im a pure breed american kenpo man with a love for other styles ,but apart from a few others studyed i have remained mostly loyal,i have 1 more night free and am thinking of do you open another club or start another style ,do i advance my own style or have a go at another with my one last spare day ,maybe something internal ,(i already teach/traine 4nights a week) kenpo is such a complex system with so much to learn, and i can teach 2 other styles ,but i only teach kenpo ,it a complex life being a martial artist.:D
     
  2. Virtuous

    Virtuous New Member

    That is the longest sentence I have ever read. [Edit]
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2003
  3. gojuman

    gojuman Valued Member

    I posted this thread earlier today, but I got now response so I will add mine to yours


    I am always interested in why some martial artists chose to train in different styles. Or, why after achieving rank in one style switch to another style and then post on their martial arts resume that they have a this belt in that and a that belt in this. Perhaps I have been lucky that my ryu offers so much depth and diversity that I couldn't imagine leaving it to train in another form.

    It is not that I live in a vacuum of only thinking that my style is the only style worth studying, because I visit other stylists, attend seminars and read. I do this from the vantage point of adding thought or technology to my style. My Sensei teaches that with out change and evolution we stagnate and ultimately die, so he is constantly infusing new concepts into the form but maintianing the roots and foundation of our style.
     
  4. matsloth

    matsloth New Member

    crosstrain

    re virtouos some may say everyones a critic ,but did your instructor ever tell that it is what you do not what you say(or write ) i cant spell either but that never stopped me putting my point forward the first thing any martial artist should learn is to to look to themselves before mocking others . im a great believer in self assesment.but getting back to the subject if you have a great system do you need to look outside . you must ask yourself not of the system but the instructor, is he progressive in himself .like i traine in kenpo but needed more grappling so i found tai jitsu .i needed to kick better and one of my students was a 1st dan tkd so i learned from him .he may be my student but hes a great kicker ,but i have been wandering about internaliseing like kenpo taiji to add more to my kenpo .whos right who knows find out for yourself and if you do tell me!!!!
    :p
     
  5. Virtuous

    Virtuous New Member

    Im sorry mat, I was not mocking and meant no malice. My communicative skills are at best nominal. I found it some what amusing and pointed it out. I did manage to forget to put a smiley at the end of my statement so I can see how it was misinterprited. If some one had pointed out such a thing in one of my own posts I would have had a good laugh. Obviously it is a tender subject for you and I apologize.

    To be honest though I cant tell if your asking a question or making a statement. However the cross training issue has been discussed many times already, in fact just as recently as 2 to 3 days ago. There is a search button at the top of the page and there is information readily available about cross training.

    As for my opinion, if there is another art out there that strikes your fancy by all means go out and investigate. If you find it interferes with your kenpo training then do what you feel you have to do. I do know cross training works well for many and not so well for some.
     
  6. matsloth

    matsloth New Member

    crosstrain

    no malice taken it is both a statement and a question ,the statement is i am black belt level at 2 other styles and 1st dan american kenpo i have taken my other 2 chosen styles to working level and given preference to kenpo,i supose this is cross training at base level the question is would it make me a greater martial artist if i pushed to become higher dan grades in all my styles or would it be better to conentrate on kenpo as it is ,just expand within the clubs i have a use the resources around me ,i could use the saying to be a large fish in a small pond or a small fish in a large pond if you see what i mean ,the reason i wrote this thread and the preavious one (about parkers dream)is to make me think about were the arts are going and hopefully otheres may think to .:D anyway i enjoy talking to other artist so double bonus:D :D
     
  7. Razor

    Razor New Member

    What is your ultimate martial arts goal? And how long have you been studying? It never hurts to see what is out there-

    Chances are if you feel the need to study another style, you probably should, because your base art is not fulfilling your martial arts potential. Is that pretty much correct?

    In the style I practice there are a few "sets" of techniques with different philosophies- the first set up to 1st Degree black belt are the basics. Reaching this level basically means you are proficient enough to begin the next "set"- The difference between the two is night and day- Some folks feel that they are just unstoppable at Shodan (1st) only to find they have just taken that next BIG step! (If they stay awhile to find out!)

    I can only speak from my own experiences...

    Whatever you decide keep us posted and good luck!

    james
     
  8. matsloth

    matsloth New Member

    hi my goal is to become the best i can ,be affective and understand the concepts of motion ,physics and anatomy and a good enough knowlegde to do my style justice in my teachings
    as a american kenpo man studying parkers system its hard to find bodys and a good flow of bodys to make your stuff work in the sw uk there isnt much of a hardcore ,lots of part timers that dont care if it works more if it looks good.i have studied other styles but fell in love with parkers system ,im lucky as the system will take a lifetime to understand but as an instructor it is easy to become complacent so it is good to go back to white belt and start again with no one analiseing your stuff ,i dont know if you undersand what im trying to say but i spend so much time teaching it would be great to be there again remember that buzz ,dont get me wrong i still get a great buzz from what i do but do you remember that feeling ,and i think its great for humility
    i am able to instruct kenpo /kickboxing/tai jitsu.but i only teach kenpo with an edge of kickboxing and tai jitsu .anyway its good to talk about any aspect of what you do and its good to hear from anybody many thanks ever the student matt
     
  9. Les

    Les Valued Member

    Matt,

    Your comments about Kenpo in England are interesting.

    I'm curious to know where you train and who your instructor is.

    Perhaps you could drop me an e-mail.

    Les
     
  10. matsloth

    matsloth New Member

    hi i have 2xclubs of my own in somerset sw england
    and also teach in 3xclubs run by my instructor ,my history is myself/neil hazell4thdeg/bob walsh6thdeg/bob rose10thdeg/larry tatum10th/mr parker10thdeg but i trained under hazell,walsh and rose .there is great history in jersey .this year i have been contacting the top men in kenpo tatum/la tourrette/speakman ect and have had good response but the best yet has to be athos antoniades of the american kenpo taiji assosiation an ambasador to the arts ,check out his site you wont be dissapionted he has internalised kenpo but not lost the true genius of this system .american kenpo is so misunderstood and misrepresented ,i just stick to the basics and teach motion / physics and anatomy but i love to keep it real .anyway its always great to hear from any kenpo people
    you will have to excuse my spelling its pretty bad
    matt follain
    tiger to dragon kenpo schools
     
  11. Les

    Les Valued Member

    Are you affiliated to Athos Antoniades schools?

    I've never met him, but I have spoken to him on the telephone and seen him on video.

    Les
     
  12. ptcruiser

    ptcruiser New Member

    Hello Matsloth,

    from reading your posts I think maybe you are speaking more on the level of adaptation rather than cross-training.
    Adding to your kenpo teaching various techniques that work well w/i your american kenpo style is beneficial and won't stagnate your growth or knowledge. Use your wisdom to help others.
    Remember Edmund Parker (the father of american kenpo) was a student of kosho ryu kenpo and after yrs of study and training venturing out, Ed came up with a style that has been rewarding and inspirational to many students he leaves to continue his legacy.
     
  13. matsloth

    matsloth New Member

    hi again im not affiliated with athos but i know exelence when i see it "if you now what i mean" but athos was put down by the kenpo world for many years, by othere high ranking so called proggressive artists trying to discredit him ,which i can relate to ,i also have had my work slated, some of them say it is to hardcore to street,
    but only after reading litriture like the insights buy parker and dr la tourrette s work on mental training or the zen of kenpo did i get to this point,what is martial arts "the art of war"perhaps self defence ,un armed combat,which ever line you take it is still violence you can wear a gi and call it art but violence is violence ,thats what we teach,be it anti violence or not ,a punch is a punch, lets not hide from that ,this has nothing to do with what we are saying but i recently had a high ranking kenpo man"6th dan"say what i was teaching was to violent !excuse me ,to violent,how!, we teach people to kill !.dont get me wrong im not a barbarian or a thug if you have read any of my threads you will see thats not in my nature .im a realist it must work ,but i have looked at standing alone with my own style" kenpo fighting system"that way its down to me ,but is that running away,as a martial artist i should stand my ground and say ill teach what i want ,and will be judged by my students and those who train with me.
    as parker said quote"its better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"i once had a visiting instuctor also high ranking tell me i couldnt wear a b.k.k.u badge because i also wore a american kenpo karate conction patch ,as if it affected my taining or teaching !.maybe im just ranting its been along week.
    many thanks
    matt
    tiger to dragon kenpo schools
     
  14. totality

    totality New Member

    whether or not to crosstrain depends on what you intend to accomplish with martial arts. as far as self-defense, most trained martial artists can do pretty well with the average attacker. i feel crosstraining applies more to those who train for the octagon/ring, as you aren't going up against professional athletes in most streetfights. but it is good to do at least a little crosstraining in some kind of grappling art...[cough]brazilian jiu-jitsu[/cough]:D...i've been driving to colorado once a week to roll with a class there for about a month now, and it has improved my ground skills considerably. spend a month with a decent bjj instructor, and you'll be schooling everyone left and right. good stuff.
     
  15. Terry Matthes

    Terry Matthes New Member

    I think you have the wrong mind set when you pledge a loyalty to an art. What is the point? To me it creates a closed mind to start when looking at other arts because you would immediatley assume that the art you take is the best, which leaves little room for appreciation for other arts. Just my opinion, no flames please my inbox is stuffed as it is :)
     
  16. matsloth

    matsloth New Member

    crosstrain

    hi in parkers original kenpo there was ground fighting he had a great grappling system but it was lost along with most of his ideas as it was watered down over the years,i can also teach tai jitsu and kickboxing ,but havent for years, i include it in my kenpo,and advise my students to at least play with grappling ,when sparring ,we spar as freefight ,anything goes ,no mind set,or set ups ,just freefight ,this prepares you for anything,kick or punch,trapping to grappling,but as i said this was already in parkers system its just been lost ,i love trying to fit in techniques when sparring its pretty hard but very rewarding .good to hear from you all .
    matt
    tiger to dragon kenpo schools
     
  17. totality

    totality New Member

    yay terry! i didn't know you were an mma guy...ever compete? send me a PM if you have time, not too many MMA people here...and that leaves us with the sherdog forums? no thanks :D
     

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