Cross training

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by querist, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. querist

    querist MAP Resident Linguist?

    Hello everyone!

    I've seen Cross Training discussed in various art-specific topics, so I thought I'd raise a few questions in the general discussion area.

    I am hoping for an intelligent and spirited discussion. :)

    1. Why or why not Cross-train? (I know some arts supposedly claim it is unnecessary.)
    2. When do you start? How long / what rank in first art before starting the second one?
    3. How to select a second art. I guess this depends on your reasons for studying martial arts in the first place.
    4. What do you do with your first art while training in the second?
     
  2. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    1) The obvious one is to learn new skillsets. The less obvious (and more valuable one IMHO) is to gain different perspectives on things. Yes, I've learned lots of stuff from crosstraining, but I've also discovered lots of cool new applications for stuff I already know, as well as tons of set-ups and tweaks to those things as well. Everything you need may well be contained in your style, but often you won't know where to look for it unless you go elsewhere (hence the hideous anti-grappling monstrosities you see, when forms contain perfectly good clinching and wrestling strategies if you know what to look for).
    2. Depends very much on the individual, and it's more about your development as a martial artist. The better your general understanding of martial arts though, the quicker you'll get something from the cross training.
    3. Depends on what you want to achieve. Are you looking to plug a gap or expand repertoire? (obviously ultimately you really want to do both). If you do Wing Chun for example, you could cross train in Sambo or cross train in Panantukan and either would be effective, but they'd achieve different goals.
    4. depends on time and money constraints, how much you've got from it, and how emotionally attached to it you are.
     
  3. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I cross train Judo and Brasilian Jiu Jitsu and, recently, freestyle wrestling.

    1. The reason i like cross training is that grappling arts come from the same foundation, therefore, something i learn in judo might be useful in jiu jitsu, as there more throws in Judo involving the Gi. Wrestling provides a wider variation of techniques that judo doesn't have any more, as well as many no-gi techniques that i can use in jiu jitsu, when i see people wrestle, i can see how those techniques can be used in jiu jitsu to land a submission.

    2. I'm white belt in both judo and jiu jitsu. i like having variation, that's what will make my jiu jitsu better than other people, coming at the same problem with other styles of thinking.

    3. As i said i chose the arts as grappling is a largely interrelated part of MA. As is striking. the concepts of grappling are very much the same. we dont have different blocks like in striking as usually different grappling arts have different rule sets so that one seems different from the other but they are all part of a big grappling picture.

    4. carry on your first art. Don't forget it and always keep a mind open for new techniques from your second art that can be translated into the first, but understand the rule set of each art and play by them when you're doing that art e.g. no submissions in freestyle wrestling! or even avoid lying on your stomach during judo!

    Start cross training! I welcome you to the world of mixed martial arts!
     
  4. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    1.Why or why not Cross-train? (I know some arts supposedly claim it is unnecessary.)

    I cross train/have cross trained to fill the gaps in my knowledge - I always wanted to get better on the ground so I started BJJ. Also I've cross trained because different schools have had classes running at more convenient times for me or because they have been closer to where I live. I have also cross trained to do styles that appeal to me but didn't necessarily compliment my other styles - I did capoeira because it looked like fun and was a good workout.

    2. When do you start? How long / what rank in first art before starting the second one?

    It depends on your goals. If you want to do 2 styles that compliment each other then starting them both together could be a good idea. If you really want to specialise in a style but do something else for fun, then it might be a good idea to wait until you are competent at the basics of the first style. I would also say it depends how often you can train each style.

    3. How to select a second art. I guess this depends on your reasons for studying martial arts in the first place.

    It depends on what you want to gain from your training. If you want to be a 'complete' martial artist then picking styles that cover as many aspects of fighting as possible (striking, grappling and weapons) would be a good idea.

    What do you do with your first art while training in the second?

    I train them both, but again it depends on your goals, reasons for training, availability to attend classes and cost.
     
  5. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    My only issue with crosstraining is one of original purpose. I RE-started martial arts because I had never been able to finish my triaining the first time, meaning I was never able to reach a black belt which to me signifies the end of the "entry level" stuff. At that point you should have a strong enough grasp on the basics to learn how to employ them, hone their use, and really get GOOD. If you just started learning martial arts for the exercise or for the pure and simple reason of defense then learning a second art is imperative! But if you joined to become proficient at a single system, then to my mind adding a second art in too early can cause confusion and slow down your progress. sort of a Jack of all trades/master of none kind of deal. I will have my blackbelt in Hapkido in 6 months. My plan is to learn another form of art but devote myself to that predominantly. I'll keep up my HKD training on the side but my focus will be this new art.

    I'm not sure if thats crosstraining as you see it but thats the only way it works in my head.
     
  6. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    as mikey said. it might be good to separate the styles in your head. but you'll notice when sparring that you'll use moves from another style instinctively.

    My goal is no-gi grappling, so cross training is imperative.
    Judo is good as the ground rules are quite similar to IBJJF but i need to learn better takedowns (most no-gi guys in scotland learn judo, so having good wrestling will confuse them quite a bit and hopefully give me an advantage)
     
  7. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    See you're learning your stuff for another reason all together - cometition. In that case I say learn all you can as quickly as you can.
     
  8. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    I'm thinking about competition but i'm not sure.
    I dont like the existing rule set of the IBJJF or ADCC because its too in favour of BJJers.
    I'm currently working on my own rule set for uni competitions of mixed grappling so that it favours everyone.
     
  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    best way to start cross training is cross sparring. you'll see holes in your game
     
  10. querist

    querist MAP Resident Linguist?

    I did the cross-sparring thing when I was a teen. There were three of us who were each very dedicated to our individual styles - my preying mantis, one friend's Uechi Ryu, and another to his Shotokan. We intentionally cross-sparred and trained together so we could learn and understand more.

    Right now, I have very little opportunity to cross-train or cross-spar. I hope that when my oldest son goes to college and will need to change martial arts (as there is no Wing Chun within a reasonable distance from his chosen college), we will be able to do that when he visits.
     
  11. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    don't worry about him cross training.
    itll be a good experience.
    get him on some grappling too, its where many strikers lack!
     
  12. querist

    querist MAP Resident Linguist?

    Oh, I'm not worried about him cross-training. I'm looking forward to it. I had just hoped he'd be able to stick with Wing Chun a little longer before having to move to another art just because I'd have liked him to have been with one art longer before starting another one. It's just a timing issue.
     
  13. nekoashi

    nekoashi Valued Member

    ^^^^strong post! I think if you are kickboxing or doing certain styles of karate, it is good to add a grappling discipline like judo and visa versa. Just make sure you don't dilute your primary style's training.
     
  14. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    You could only "dilute" it by training in something weaker :rolleyes:
     
  15. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    1. Why or why not Cross-train? (I know some arts supposedly claim it is unnecessary.)

      My purpose in cross training was to expand my horizons, and fill my gaps. While my TKD included grappling, rolling, joint locks, and escapes, our focus was still striking. 75% striking and related while the other stuff was 25%. Hence my journey into Aikido, and soon into another martial art.

      Funny thing, I wouldn't even have considered Aikido if my TKD summer class was cancelled. I'm kinda glad I did Aikido, as I saw different ways for the two to cross over, not to mention giving a fresh new perspective.

      Sometimes staring at your only favourite colour distracts you from all the other beautiful colours.

    2. When do you start? How long / what rank in first art before starting the second one?

      Depends on your purpose really, and situation too. I started Aikido when my summer class was cancelled, and at that time I had been a red belt for 1/12 to 2 years (I didn't really bother with testing lol, plus our club didn't really focus on it).

    3. How to select a second art. I guess this depends on your reasons for studying martial arts in the first place.

      Pretty much answered that in question #1. My TKD was 75% striking and 25% other, so I took Aikido to balance that out, so to speak.

    4. What do you do with your first art while training in the second?

      In my case, I dropped TKD and focused my entire effort on Aikido. It really depends on who you are and your situation. I'm quite confident in learning two arts, but what I've noticed about myself is that I give maximum focus and efficiency when I am focused on one thing.
     
  16. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    I don't cross-train but I do train in two separate but related arts; Hapkido and Guem Beop. The reason I don't cross-train is that I have elected not to be a member of the population who, for reasons of their own, find it necessary to churn these same themes over and over and over again. It has been less than three monthes since we finished the last thread on a cross-training theme and I suspect that there is a motive, yet unknown to me, for individuals stoking this fire on a routine and regular basis. Color me bored with this lack of imagination.

    Best Wishes,

    Bruce
     
  17. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Rather than hinting just come out and say what you want
     
  18. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Wow, way to look at the finger :rolleyes:
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  20. illegalusername

    illegalusername Second Angriest Mapper

    Annnd the 2011 Whiniest Passive-Agressive Poster Award goes toooooooooo

     

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