Afternoon folks, I'm fairly new on here (this might be my first post) having only read comments previously so I was hoping you might be able to run your expert eye over these guys; http://www.mountainwarriors.com/ ..and let me have your opinions? They seem to cover quite a few arts but I'm particularly interested in their Taijutsu/Aiki Jutsu classes. They're fairly local so I'll be heading down and giving it a go at some point but to the more 'initiated', the video clips might give you guys and girls more of a critical impression than they do for me. Thanks Shed
They seem to teach the majority of martial arts out there. If they have suitably qualified instructors to teach each art then fine. Although they have information on the life of Takamatsu, I'm not sure if everything written is 100%. I have heard some on the stories on there from other sources but I have no idea if they are true or not. Good pictures, some I haven't seen before. It does not say what organisation they are associated with now, only that Bujinkan and BBD are listed. Mark seems to teach Jiu Jutsu as well as Jiu Tai Jutsu at the Surrey club (Jiu Tai Jutsu is a name that is sometimes used to describe one of the more grappling based schools that make up the Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu - the art I practice. Eg, Takagi Yoshin Ryu Jiu Tai Jutsu.) When you go, I would ask what association he is currently affiliated with and what qualifications he holds to teach. It may be that he was previously a member with one of the four/ five main Ninjutsu linked martial arts but is no longer a member. If this is the case and he has suitable rank to teach another form of jiu jutsu (as suggested) I'm not sure why he would still be teaching this if he's no longer connected. Under the links section there is a reference to Duncan Olby's dojo and Peter King's Dojo. Both are very much associated with the Bujinkan so that's a good sign. There is no information under the instructors tab so I can't help further. Norm may know this guy considering the BBD connection? Of course, he may well still be connected. They give a history of each art taught and have grading system for most of them. You should ask in the other forums about them because although i've trained in a few, i'm not able to comment. Go along, tell us what you think. Oh - I'm at work so can't see the video.
Um, the videos didn't help. The muto dori video wasn't great, nor was the "ninjutsu" video showing some poor examples of the kihon happo. The instructor seems to bend at the waist a lot as a glaring example. If you visit, and learning budo taijutsu is you main reason for visiting, as a lot of questions.
I tend to agree with the comments already made, there's not enough information on the site regarding either past or present affiliation and experience. Also, the 'Ninjitsu' videos show pretty low grade stuff - the guy is fairly sloppy and he looks like he's going to fall on his face several times. In addition, he bends his waist more than he bends his knees and there is zero zanshin apparent. Having said that, he does call himself 'shihan' so he must be the real deal....
It's odd that they just list their jujutsu as traditional but don't give a style the same goes for "Ninjutsu based weapons systems" just what do they mean there? They have already mentioned the Bujinkan and BBD so what are these Ninjutsu weapons systems they mention? Looks to me like they are milking the Bujinkan material they've got to make it look like they offer more, could be wrong though.
Thread on e-budo about them and with the 'head instructor' here: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35366&highlight=mountainwarriors.com
Thanks All. I was weighing up whether to try here or head along to the Bujinkan class slightly nearer to me. As it appears they have some source affiliation, I'll probably head to the BBT place first.
If I were you, I wouldn't go to the "other place" at all. I think this post from that e-budo thread sums it up nicely...
I have a simple rule of thumb. If I visit a new dojo and the training I see gives me some reason for doubt.. then that place and training is just not for me. it realy is that simple.
If that's your criteria, perhaps you should look at another art. Being in fights is to be avoided. I mean, you may get hurt or injured if you get into fights with people! Someone may be very capable in their art and may be a good instructor but may have very little actual fighting experience. If you're learning martial arts from someone who gets into fights all the time, you need to question whether they are really the sort of person you want to learn from. Please note, I used the word 'fight' as in dueling. If we're talking law enforcement, military, crowd control etc, it's a different thing. Sparring: Some martial systems/ schools do not have 'sparring' as you may know it from other arts such as Judo or BJJ. If you're looking for that type of 'sparring' perhaps Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu is not for you/ perhaps another art may better meet your needs. In the Bujinkan there is Randori which for me is a type of progressive resistance training. There is still an 'attacker' and a 'defender' just like there would be in real life. If both people are attacking/ defending then you're talking about dueling/ fighting rather than self defence.
I appreciate your concern. But I am a firm believer in that if you never been in a fight....Then you don't know how to fight. Therefore making them ineffective martial arts instructor. Anytime you're being taught an art where you have an opponent. You need to have real experience or you really don't know what it's like. Today in a business meeting we were talking about how the people training people for the job, haven't actually DONE the job themselves. But their trades were in "training" people. Which was becoming ineffective and creating loss for the business. It's better to have an EXPERIENCED person from the field to come step up and be a leader OVER that field of work. Rather than grabbing someone from the outside that has no experience in it. I'm applying that to martial arts. I believe ancient practitioners of ninjutsu would've been STRONG in their art. Not a bunch of unconditioned people practicing a watered down art from a person who has never tasted any real martial arts experience. So what's the point of learning it, if it doesn't work? If ninjutsu was supposed to be an art of ancient WARRIORS. Shouldn't it be a working art? So you're right... perhaps the bujinkan way is not for me. And there is nothing wrong with fighting from what I've seen in the Bushido code. I'm a person of chivalry. I'm highly respectful. I appreciate honor and show honor to others and I'm loyal But when it's time to kick ass ('cuse my french) I'm going to do so. "Live when it's right to live, Die only when it's right to Die" "Rectitude is the power of deciding upon a certain course of conduct in accordance with reason, without wavering; to die when it is right to die, to strike when to strike is right"
Kuroshinobi, Ok. So for a person to be your martial arts instructor, he/ she would have to have had some real fighting experience. How much real fighting experience? Are we talking about life or death situations here? How many? Do they need scars? What about shooting someone with an M16 assault rifle from 20ft or being a radar operator on a submarine during a war? What about being a navigator in a two man F-15 jet sitting in the back while the guy in front shoots down six enemy aircraft? That's real life fighting experience right? All that counts right? Are we only talking about unarmed fights - bar fights? Fights over ego or pride, do they count? Perhaps you could explain your criteria. There are many people in the Bujinkan who choose an occupation that put them directly in the path of physical confrontation. Police officers, private security, bouncers and military. What about me then? I work in an office in London. I wear a suit. I have zero desire to get into a fight with someone in order to test my stuff, zero desire to quit my job, take a course in 'crowd control' to get my bouncers licence and then go look after a door so I can test my stuff. Why would I want to do that? I've been training for a while now. Somewhere in the future it's possible/ likely I will get to the required level, pass the test and perhaps start my own place (if the test still exists then - perhaps it will become a little harder to become an instructor in the future. Fingers crossed.) I've been in a few situations - really, nothing heavy, the main one as an adult was more about protecting another person rather than protecting myself. My training helped me in those and it's helped me avoid a few too. I 've had fist fights in the park after school about 10 years ago, quite a few actually - do they count under your criteria? Would the F15 navigator be more qualified than me to teach you the martial art of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu? Do you suggest that at 25 I go out now and get into a few fights in order to test my training? I could tell you a few stories then and impress you a little. As I would then have the 'real world' fighting experience you were looking for, i'd meet your criteria so you would want to learn from me - right? I'd be a total **** head to go and do that but that's not important - is it? Please help.
The maturity of your post belies your years Decision Tree - well said. I can see kuroshinobi's point however - essentially it would be useful to know if you can rely on what you've been taught, when put under pressure. Sparring gives you one way of testing that, however I think it goes without saying that getting into street-fights in order to exercise your 'training' is a big no-no. A phrase that is often used here is that the student ultimately determines the effectiveness of the 'art' and I think it's relevant here. If the student doesn't listen then it could be Rambo teaching and it would still do you no good. As for the instructor's fight experience - not sure it's all that relevant. What might be more relevant is the testimony of his/her students that have used what they've learned to defend themselves with success.
Thank you for your comments. There is no way to know this. None. One day, when the holo deck from star trek is invented, we will have a way to know. Until then, keep training. Sorry, I dont agree with you 100% here. Sparring gives you an opportunity to see how you do when the resistance is increased. The very fact that you are sparring with someone you may well know, in a dojo with controlled variables (ie no weapons) and rules means that it has a more limited scope than many people believe. Dueling is very different to a true self defence situation. When I spar at Judo for example, I don't just rush in to try to take a guy down - I wouldn't get very far or do very well. I need to 1. get the guy on his back, not front. 2. I can't punch or kick him to help me do that. 3. I know he does not have a weapon. I feel them out, get my grips, take balance etc etc.. Totally agree. Most people don't go out looking for fights. Instead, rather than attempting to tone something down/ avoid a confrontation, they will use it as justification to use their training and so test it in a round about way. Still wrong. In london the amount of physical confrontations you could get into on a Friday night is amazing. I just dont get into them and I'm not an easy target. Most potential muggers I encounter realise this after a brief non physical exchange and decide to choose a different victim. I agree. Yep. Much more important.
