Controlled Fasting

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Ben Gash CLF, Aug 21, 2017.

  1. UKMMA

    UKMMA New Member

    Sorry to come late to this? I have had extended fasts in the past. One thing that really helped me was the green tea but also link remvoed, as when you fast you do need salts or at least I did to help with water balance. It helped me stay focused on the fast. when i need to shed weight I do keto and fasting. Keto can be easy but I try and still get as much veg as possible, which at times can kick me out of ketosis, so to get back in I fast.

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2021
  2. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Fasting. I'm not a big fan because while you might see a negative net loss on the bathroom scale, if you work out while fasting you risk burning protein instead of carbs and fat, which means loss of lean muscle mass. Others might disagree but it's not a great idea to work out while fasting. Low blood sugar is one thing but losing muscle because your body doesn't have enough glycogen on hand is a negative. My go to pre and post workout snack is a little peanut butter on toast. Vegetable fat, protein, carbs, fiber, done.

    I'm not big on fad diets like Keto either, the way I see it no body hacking diet like Keto or Atkins is really a good long term solution compared to basic physical training and a balanced diet.

    And what's with all the supplement junk? Nobody needs that stuff unless they have a serious medical issue, in my opinion.

    Want to lose fat? Hit 80% of your max heart rate (220 minus your age) with cardio training, while filling up with green leafy veggies as much as possible and avoiding fried and processed food. Eat peanut butter or something like that for preworkout and 30 after maybe a protein shake. Don't drink beer or alcohol after a workout, ever. And if you're like me and love nothing more than a tall ice cream sundae with all the toppings, always pay for each one with a solid hour of light jogging or jump rope. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  3. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Ugh. I don't mean to be a nag but losing 17 lbs that fast (pun!) is just not healthy for a couple reasons, but I'd be curious to see what your muscle mass and body fat were before and after. Chances are high that the "weight" you lost wasn't just excess body fat, but actually muscle.

    You gotta eat (right) to lose fat but keep your strength. Fasting also has the downside of slowing down your metabolism, which means you're burning fewer calories in general while also losing that muscle mass.

    I'll never get diets. I mean, Weight Watchers works, meal replacement shakes work, portion control works...none of these require you to starve yourself. And if you do starve yourself, chances are the rebound will end you back where you started.
     
  4. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    From what I've seen (articles referencing studies, didn't read the studies myself):
    - You do have net less muscle after working out fasted than you do working out fed. (I.e., you do damage/burn through more muscle tissue than you would exercising in a fed state.)
    - This is apparently compensated for by increased muscle growth afterwards (assuming you eat after the workout), resulting in overall neutral muscle loss compared to exercising fed.
    - Long fasts (multi-day/weeks) you don't lose much lean muscle mass assuming you do have fat to use as fuel. Big increases in HGH (human growth hormone) along with the fasting triggering autophagy (your body breaking down proteins it doesn't need anymore), and possibly some other things (I can't recall anything else off the top of my head), keep you from losing much lean mass.
     
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  5. jmf552

    jmf552 New Member

    I read a recent study online, and I am sorry I don't have the link, but it was supposedly the most in depth study so far of intermittent fasting. They compared groups who ate the same diet, but one group did it with fasting, eating everything in the diet during the "eating windows" of fasting and the other group ate the same food, but just at regular mealtimes, no fasting. I think there was a control group also.

    The good news was that the fasters lost more weight. The bad news is that more of the weight they lost was lean muscle than with the regular eating group. So the message for me was if I just wanted to take off weight, fasting would help. But if I wanted to get in better overall shape, not so much. It seems that muscles need a regular supply of nutrients.
     
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  6. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    What were they measuring? There were some fasting studies done that measured, IIRC, ketone bodies in urine, which do show the body is burning proteins. However, studies that measured actual lean mass indicate lean mass is preserved better via alternate daily fasting vs a calorie reduction diet.
    Also, these studies were on obese people, so plenty of fat to burn during the fast.

    E.g., https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1038/oby.2010.54
    8 weeks of ADF (alternate daily fasting):
    "We also show here that fat-free mass did not change over the course of the trial suggesting a conservation of lean mass by ADF."

    A randomized pilot study comparing zero-calorie alternate-day fasting to daily caloric restriction in adults with obesity
    8 weeks ADF vs CR (calorie reduction), additional measurements 24 weeks later (unsupervised, subjects could choose whether to continue their dietary regime).
    CR group was -400kcal from their energy expenditure. The ADF group was given meals matching their energy expenditure and allowed to eat as many additional 'food modules' (5-7 options, all 200 calories) as they wanted on feeding days (55% carb, 15% protein, 30% fat). All subjects were told to maintain their pre-diet levels of physical activity.

    After table 4 (emphasis mine, CR: Calorie Reduction, ADF: Alternate Daily Fasting, FM: Fat Mass, LM: Lean Mass):
    At the end of the 8-week intervention, absolute weight change (CR -7.1±1.0 kg, ADF-8.2±0.9 kg) did not differ between groups. However, there was a marginally significant between-group difference in relative weight change (CR -6.2±0.9%, ADF -8.8±0.9%, p=0.056). There were no significant differences in change in absolute (kg) or relative (%) FM, trunk FM, and LM over the 8-week intervention. Between the end of the 8-week intervention and the end of the 24-week follow-up (week 8 to 32) there were no differences in weight regain, however, the composition of weight regain tended to differ between groups. CR gained 1.2±0.8 kg of FM and 1.1±0.5 kg of LM, conversely, ADF lost -0.4±0.8 kg of FM (p=0.173 vs. CR) and gained 2.0±0.5 kg of LM (p=0.197 vs. CR).
    Between baseline and the end of the 24-week follow-up (baseline to week 32) there were no differences in absolute or relative weight change (Table 4) and differences in change in absolute FM (CR -2.5±1.1 kg, ADF -4.2±1.0 kg), trunk FM (CR -1.3±0.7 kg, ADF -2.7±0.6 kg), or LM (CR -1.6±0.6 kg, ADF -1.2±0.6 kg) did not reach statistical significance. However, %FM (CR -0.7±0.5%, ADF -2.4±0.5%, p=0.035) and %trunk FM (CR -0.3±0.4%, ADF -1.8±0.3%, p=0.009) decreased more in ADF, and %LM (CR 0.5±0.5%, ADF 2.2±0.5%, p=0.026) increased more in ADF.


    From Does Intermittent Fasting Make You Gain or Lose Muscle?

    Do You Lose Muscle When Fasting?
    Nearly all studies of intermittent fasting have been conducted for weight loss purposes (1).
    It is important to realize that without exercise, weight loss will usually come from a loss of both fat mass and lean mass. Lean mass is everything besides fat, including muscle (4).
    This is true of weight loss caused by both intermittent fasting and other diets.
    Because of this, some studies have shown that small amounts of lean mass (1 kg or 2 pounds) may be lost after several months of intermittent fasting (1).
    However, other studies have shown no loss of lean mass (5, 6).
    In fact, some researchers believe that intermittent fasting may be more effective for maintaining lean mass during weight loss than non-fasting diets, but more research is needed on this topic (7).
    Overall, it is likely that intermittent fasting will not cause you to lose more muscle than other weight loss diets.

    And further down:
    Research has shown that weight training can help prevent muscle loss when you are losing weight (15).
    What’s more, a couple of studies have shown this specifically in relation to intermittent fasting (8, 16).
    ...
    This shows that weight training three days per week may help maintain muscle during fat loss caused by intermittent fasting.
    Other research on alternate-day fasting has shown that 25–40 minutes of exercise on a bike or elliptical three times per week can help maintain lean mass during weight loss (17).
     
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