Considering the Catholic Faith

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Vita, Aug 30, 2005.

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Have you donated/helped with the condom issue in Africa?

  1. Yes, i have because i care so much.

    1 vote(s)
    3.8%
  2. No, i haven't, i just like to complain about the church

    9 vote(s)
    34.6%
  3. No, i haven't, but i don't complain about the church's involvement

    16 vote(s)
    61.5%
  1. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    You're an interesting fellow, Tekken, but I wonder just why you think your generation, or whatever other specific group of people, feel something new. I'll give you an example closer to home than the fine examples given by Capt Ann. Before you were born, I watched a very popular TV show called "Happy Days." It was set in the 1950s. I exaggerate only a little to say that every third conversation on this show concerned sex. One of the main characters was Fonzie. In just about every scene he picked up a new girl. We never saw the Fozn in bedroom with a girl, but there's no question that he "scored." I think there were only two girls in the whole show he didn't have sex with: his friend's sister (Jonie), and his friend's mother (Mrs. Cunningham).

    Can you beat the Fonz? Can anyone today beat the Fonz? I think not. "There is nothing new under the sun," as the saying goes. People before us felt peer pressure to have sex, and people after us will feel peer pressure to have sex. We're doing what the Romans did. After us people will do what the Romans did. People are the same throughout history.


    Temptations are the same. Desires are the same. Actions are the same. We're still greedy over the same things people 3000 years ago were greedy over. We're still doing the same things to one another that people 3000 years ago were doing to each other. We're still doing to ourselves the same things that people 3000 years ago were doing.

    The only difference is that we wear different clothes, drive different "chariots," live in houses made from a different material, and buy different toys.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2005
  2. Topher

    Topher allo!

    You want to visit a UK hospital ;)

    I disagree because you can get a disease by means other than sex, then transmit it sexually. So in that case you still need to use a condom is Option 2.

    Secondly your argument is flawed. Hold your hormones until marriage. Look for a life-partner who has done the same, now THAT is unlikely. Marriage is becoming less common nowadays and many people wait until they are a lot older than usual. Do you expect someone who never marries to remain celibate forever, or someone who gets married when there 38 to stay celibate. Wake up :rolleyes:

    Or C) provide contraception so there isn’t a need to rape in the first place.

    Echoing what Mavrick said, there are laws against rape, punishable by imprisonment today. Guess what? Doesn’t really stop some people from committing rape.
     
  3. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    I know all about the Fonz! :D
    that was a good example. and that illustrates the point that there are exceptions to what i was saying. but, hmmm, how do i explain this, i thinkits alot more.....mainstream.
     
  4. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    ?? I don't think anyone says "Damn, I'm horney, but I don't have any condoms. Better go rape someone." In fact, from what I understand, the reasons for rape aren't even remotely like it. I don't see why you think the need to rape is due to lack of contraception.
     
  5. Topher

    Topher allo!

    I was refering to Capt Ann's comment that the spread of HIV/AIDS in Africa is due to men believing that they will be cured if they rape a virgin, therefore young girls/women are often raped, hence the man spreads the disease.

    But, if contraception were avaliable in the first place the man would have not caught the disease (or at least less likely), hence he wouldn't need to rape for the cause is originally did it for.

    I also add that many people dont have premarital sex but catch AIDS from other means and pass it down to children. So here is a child that will have no choice but use contraception regardless whether they have pre-martial sex or not.
     
  6. Maverick

    Maverick New Member

    I take your point on that. But what if one 'faithful' partner plays away from home and might have used a condom for it?

    So still no justification?

    Or maybe we should stop being silly in replies. We're not just talking about rape, we're talking about any kind of sex, 'promiscuous' or not. And actually a rapist may be concerned about catching something from a victim.

    The attitude I'm seeing here can be summed up by "If you don't play by our rules, who cares what happens to you". Which isn't very mature/responsible/moral/realistic for a supposedly caring community. It seems love and respect for your fellow man goes out of the window when he/she does something you don't agree with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2005
  7. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    I wonder which is more difficult - teaching people that raping a virgin won't cure AIDS, or educating them on condom usage. Which do you think would be more beneficial? I would say the former. I would think that teahing people that rape won't solve their problems would be better than just handing them condoms in the hope that it will stop the disease.

    Considering the amount of work that it would take to educate people on how to use condoms properly, to make condoms available to everyone, and to handle the existing problem with rape, and the fact that it still might be necessarry to discourage extramarital sex, simply due to the amount of disease out there in Africa, that there might be other ways to solve the problem than just handing out condoms to everyone - and that doing so may not be the quick, easy fix that you seem to think it is?
     
  8. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    In that case, I don't see why he would have a problem with putting on a condom if he doesn't have a problem with committing adultry. His morals certainly aren't getting in the way.

    I said that the people who follow the standard of morals that precludes condom usage won't do things that would produce children with AIDS - so I don't see how this fits in.


    Or maybe we should stop being silly in replies. We're not just talking about rape, we're talking about any kind of sex, 'promiscuous' or not. And actually a rapist may be concerned about catching something from a victim.

    No, it's more like - if you don't play by our rules, then why are you complaining about our rules.
     
  9. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    I really just don't see it. you'd be surprised how easy it is to be safe if you try. not all people who are premiscuous go around and screw complete strangers, in fact, for alot people i know it goes something like this.
    A relationship is started between 2 clean people. they have sex. they eventually break up.
    a diffrent relationship is started between 2 people, they have sex. repeat.

    and when i say clean, of course at first it would be 2 virgins, then the next relationship, people either get tested, or trust each other enough to share the roster and know they are clean.
     
  10. Maverick

    Maverick New Member

    No, but his concern over STDs might.

    But unborn children cannot influence their parents' morals. I find it absurd that people can argue against abortion to 'protect the rights' of the foetus yet they don't have a problem with children being born with HIV.

    But they do play by the Church's rules, so the Church can have a big influence on their actions. It's much easier to wear a condom and be 'promiscuous' than be monogamous. It's the Church's responsibility to accept human nature and try and minimise the damage.
     
  11. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    His concern over STDs might prevent him from putting on a condom? That doesn't even make sense. I'm asking why he would care what the catholic church's stance is on condoms if he's committing adultry.

    Once again, you were talking about someone who does follow the morals that I outlined. And when did abortion come into this?

    If you're being promiscuous, then you're not playing by the church's rules. If the Church was significantly influencing their actions, they wouldn't be having sex in the first place.
     
  12. Maverick

    Maverick New Member

    No, it would make him use a condom.

    Abortion comes into it as an example of how ludicrous and contradictory Christian 'morals' are.

    Not true really. As I said, it's easier to wear a condom than to abstain. Unsuprisingly it seems many Africans are happy to selectively follow the Church's rules when it suits them to, just like our non-African friends (condom use within marriage is OK because sex is fun and hard to resist from doing)
     
  13. Topher

    Topher allo!

    I agree, educating people that rape won’t cure the problem should defiantly be done. My point with condoms is they should be given to those who don’t have AIDS so they don’t catch the disease, and also given to those who do have AIDS so they don’t spread [or at least limit] it.

    You can discourage extramarital sex all you like but people will still do it. Robbery/rape/murder/violence are discouraged, yet they still happen. So in that case we tell people to be vigilant. People also take up martial arts for self-defence, which is just a form of protection, only in a different way. Are you gonna say to people, the best way not to be assaulted or raped or murdered is to stay at home. And anyone who goes out practically disserves it because they ignored the best advice. :rolleyes:

    On marriage, the British government has just released a report concerning the reduction in the rate or marriage. Les and less people here are getting married and that figure is growing. Do you expect millions of people in Britain to remain celibate forever? Because your view is you should only have sex when you’re married.
     
  14. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Don't confuse "the right thing to do" with "doing the right thing." They should be celibate, but not all of them will be celibate. As you implied, people should not rape, murder, or rob. But as you stated, some people will rape, murder, and rob.
     
  15. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    Ok Aiki, let me reitterate this and clarify.
    celebacy is not the only way, nor is it a need. you can in no way compare it to murder/rape/ect.

    only sleeping with people you trust or test is the best way here.
    you can very easily be promiscuous and be very safe.
    for most people i know it goes like this within, the relationships anyway
    2 people start a relationship as virgins, they are clean, they screw.
    they break up.
    another relationship is started, they share the roster and trust each other enough or they get tested, which would be the same as a marriage in any sense.
     
  16. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    I don't know about that. Are we still talking about Catholicism? Or Christian ideals more generally? If so then extra-marital sex can be compared to other bad acts in one sense:

    For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. ​

    James 2:11. In context, James was saying, "Hey, look people, obeying one rule is great. I'm happy you're doing it. But don't go fooling yourself into thinking that you're pleasing God just because you obey one rule. The same God who gave that rule also gave some other rules, you know. There's more to morality than just the few rules you are obeying, and all of the rules of morality came from the same God. You cannot pick and choose only the ones you like."
     
  17. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    I agree if that where the case.

    But i'm talking about the STD.ect side of sex here, what i said is the way i've seen it happen alot, and if you only screw people you either trust, or know for a fact are clean, then you're safe, and its the same as marital sex.
     
  18. Topher

    Topher allo!

    Just out of intrest, how was the words of god delivered to man?
     
  19. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    I find it absolutely hillarious that we're talking about this, and theres a Condom ad in the MAP Ad banner!! HAHAHAHAHA!
     
  20. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Through the conscience. Through speech. Through writings.
     

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