"Consent" in pornography: an analogy with combat sports

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Timmy Boy, Jun 9, 2013.

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  1. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    My girlfriend got lewd comments in the shopping centre she works at from group of 12 year olds on scooters.
    it's weird to see children tell that stuff at a passing older woman
     
    Mangosteen, Jun 11, 2013
    #41
  2. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I'm not going to deny most people seem to percieve porn as objectifying women, but I am curious about why? I get they're presumably naked, exposing their bodies for a predominantly straight male audience's benefit, but I'm not sure that's objectifying. If I think about a woman having sex on screen through personal choice (I'll leave out the coercion issue for the sake of keeping it simple) and a man in a darkened room tugging it in front of a glowing computer screen, I find it hard to say its the male who's in a position of power.

    Then if you have named porn actresses, chances are they'll have a degree of a following. They're less of a random faceless actress then and presumably actually take on some form of a personality for want of a better word.

    Plus as far as men not being objectified in the same way, I'm sure there's a degree of personal preference in this one but a lot of porn I'm...uh...told about...doesn't feature the men heavily at all. If they're on screen no particular attention is paid to them, and more often than not they're off screen with camera angles and all that jazz focusing heavily on the female. In that case the male is nothing more than a tool being used to enable to the female actress to perform. That fits more in line with what I thoguh objectification meant.
     
    Southpaw535, Jun 11, 2013
    #42
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Nobody cares about the females personality, views, or even that shes enjoying the filming, hence seeing her as an object for the viewers gratification.
     
    Dead_pool, Jun 11, 2013
    #43
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That happens a lot nowadays, kids dont have consequences for there actions anymore, And ive just realised how old I sound by saying that.
     
    Dead_pool, Jun 11, 2013
    #44
  5. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    No one cares about anyone's views in porn, personality is debatable depending on what you're watching but is naturally limited by what porn is, and the whole point of porn for most people is seeing the woman's enjoyment. Whether she actually is enjoying the filming is obviously different, but its hardly unique to women in porn. Someone already brought up sweatshops as another example of how we generally don't care how we got an end product we enjoy.
     
    Southpaw535, Jun 11, 2013
    #45
  6. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    The main source in society of objectifying women and holding women up to a ridiculous physical standard is not pron but women's magazines themselves with their backbiting and slagging of of other women who are not perfect in some way. There realy ain't no sisterhood.
     
    adouglasmhor, Jun 11, 2013
    #46
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That is simply not true, there is little emphasis on the female orgasam, and the 'climax' of most shoots (parden the pun) is the end result of the male orgasm in a further degrading moment.
     
    Dead_pool, Jun 11, 2013
    #47
  8. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Its quite possible me and you have different preferences in viewing material
     
    Southpaw535, Jun 11, 2013
    #48
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Nice labeling there, ;)
     
    Dead_pool, Jun 11, 2013
    #49
  10. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Would it not be better to nip the problem in the bud before it gets out of control? Why wait until it reaches epidemic proportions?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification#Sexual_objectification_of_men
     
    aikiwolfie, Jun 11, 2013
    #50
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hands up any man who would mind being treated as a sex object by women?
    Anyone? Hello? Is the internet broken? :)
     
    Smitfire, Jun 11, 2013
    #51
  12. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    I would mind. I'm very selective about who I spend my time with. I don't particularly enjoy being the centre of attention or being made into some sort of poster boy.
     
    aikiwolfie, Jun 11, 2013
    #52
  13. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail, Jun 11, 2013
    #53
  14. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    ~raises hand~ That sort of relationship is fun, but not really emotionally/spiritually fulfilling-which is what makes a relationship durable long term.
     
    matveimediaarts, Jun 11, 2013
    #54
  15. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    Should raise a point here. Just because you are a sex-object does not mean that people find you sexually attractive and the same goes vice versa.
     
    Happy Feet Cotton Tail, Jun 11, 2013
    #55
  16. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Southpaw - pr0n female orgasms are mostly fake. 8 hours of pounding and gratifying the male actors junk will take its toll on the buddy. Imagine 8 hours of hard sparring?!
    Also pint of view genre is incredibly popualr, and that focuses on pleasing the male in particular

    Adougalousadams - women's magazine are owned by male-run corporations, as are the te cosmetic companies.
     
    Mangosteen, Jun 11, 2013
    #56
  17. Happy Feet Cotton Tail

    Happy Feet Cotton Tail Valued Member

    The discussion isn't really so much about whether the woman actually does enjoy it. More that, it doesn't really matter. Most porn consists of the woman either actively pleasing the man; or being passive while the man pleases himself with her body (and purely co-incidentally the woman).

    Ideally you want a "Porn culture" in which this AND other dynamics between partners are emphasized. You can say no one cares about the personality; and that may be true... but the way porn is directed and written at the moment suggests that we are far more interested in watching men enjoy themselves and that female enjoyment is really a side show by comparison. One of the big steps to proper sexual liberation of women will come with a porn industry that puts as much emphasis on what they enjoy as it does on what men enjoy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
    Happy Feet Cotton Tail, Jun 11, 2013
    #57
  18. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Does that still apply widely to amateur stuff? If not, then I'm guilt free.

    I get your point about the POV genre, but at the same time isn't the appeal there that you're seeing the woman (at least pretend) to enjoy herself? In that genre the man is cut out fo the picture and made entirely irrelevant. He's simply an avatar for you to project yourself onto. If you're talking about removing the personality from people then I can't think of much worse than that.

    If the issue is the idea that POV is used to please the watching male by getting to project himself into the scenario and pretend they're sleeping with the woman, then we're stuffed anyway. That's the whole point of porn is to please the viewer.

    edit: As for it focusing on pleasing the man I still don't accept that. Granted, porn is a very wide industry and I'm not saying I've seen a lot of it, but almost all of the focus is on the woman. Vocally the woman's pleasure takes the main role, and close-ups and other camera cuts generally focus on her. Other than money shot finishes, which make up a tiny percentage of the overall footage, the man is barely noted. He might get the odd camera cut, but for the msot part he's nothing more than a phallus being used as a tool. I'm not saying men are objectified either by the way. I just can't get this idea that porn focuses on the male pleasure, other than that of the viewr in which case, like I said, this is a pointless discussion anyway because that is the sole purpose of pornographic material.

    Finally, I agree with the whole 8 hours thing. But isn't that a seperate issue to do with current industry habits and, I suppose, a workers' rights issue more than a sexism one?
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
    Southpaw535, Jun 11, 2013
    #58
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I AM a sex object......(wait for it).....women object to sex with me

    Badam-tish
     
    Hannibal, Jun 11, 2013
    #59
  20. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Sex in professional pr0n is the man using the woman's body to get himself off. whether the woman gets off or not doesnt matter but it's nicer for viewers to see that - but again thats all to please males with the females perceived "positive" sexual experience.

    what it's portraying about women is that they're still objects but men are happier when the dial is turned to happy on the female sex-toy they're using.
    not like actual sex unless you're a terribly uncaring person.

    amateur stuff is people filming their daily habits. a bit different.
     
    Mangosteen, Jun 11, 2013
    #60
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