Congratulations America

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Dead_pool, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    That's good to know, their probably best not paired with a yellow and black Polo shirt, a red baseball cap and tiki torches still, although that could make a good Halloween costume in a few years.


    Also an Interesting link!
    why white supremacists are co-opting khaki pants
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    The khaki pants = white supremacists was a flash in the pan in 2017. I haven't seen it as a prominent uniform at white supremacists rally subsequent to Charlottesville. Nowadays, the most recognizable uniform for a white supremacist is the black-and-yellow of the Proud Boys.


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  3. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    That or a flak jacket on top of an outfit bought from a website that features the word, "tactical," somewhere, and always, always, wrap around shades.

    Seriously, most of these guys are playing soldiers so hard they look like 8 year olds playing war. So desperate to look tough and bolster egos.
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  4. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    The only thing you mention that's an accurate predictor of trouble is wearing a plate carrier to a protest (and even that's not specifically a white supremacist thing; some Black Nationalists do it too).

    As for the clothing the 90s, people said that hunting camo was an indicator of radicalism because of Timothy McVeigh and Eric Robert Rudolph. In 2017, it was khakis and polos. Now people are mentioning "tactical" branded clothing as a sign of trouble.

    All three of these stereotypes have massive degrees of false positives. I own a lot of clothing from 5.11 Tactical (for the record, they have really good pants/trousers/whatever you call them). I own a pair of khaki slacks. And I'm typing this in a Mossy Oak hoodie. Under all three clothing tests, what does that make me?

    None of these are helpful indicators of extremism. They're at best regional stereotyping.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Perhaps now they are widely known stereotypes, it's the sort of person who willingly wears them to protests etc, who is more likely to be actively promoting that "brand".

    I certainly would judge anyone wearing a MAGA hat now, more seriously then I would of pre election, same as any Q clothes or social media posts.

  6. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Willingly wears what to protests? You're going to have to be specific.

    Willingly wears plate carriers?
    Willingly wears 5.11 Tactical clothing?
    Willingly wears khaki pants?
    Willingly wears polo shirts?
    Willingly wears MAGA hats?

    Exactly what you're saying depends a lot on what the "them" is in the boldfaced phrase, because the conversation has jumped around a bit. At this point, I'm down with assuming the worst about combat gear at protests, whether they're worn by Proud Boys, Antifa, or Black Panthers. I'm not down with insinuating that I'm a Nazi because I own a lot of 5.11 Tactical clothing and tend to wear it most of the time when I'm not wearing dress clothes. I haven't been to a political rally recently, but if I were, I would probably be wearing a Carhartt cap, a sweater, 5.11 Tactical trousers, and 5.11 Tactical boots (and a mask because gathering without a mask is super-dumb). So yes, I would willingly wear 5.11 Tactical clothing to a protest.

    And tangent time about what's been going on in my neck of the woods...seems that Antifa militants aren't as happy about Biden's inauguration as most of us on this forum.


    Picture taken from riots in Portland after Biden's inauguration, where Antifa militants had molotov cocktails and metal batons. The headquarters of the Oregon Democratic Party was smashed up--so the criminality has a tone of political violence and political intimidation to it--though thankfully nobody was inside at the time as far as I've been able to tell. Riots have also been occurring in Seattle and now Tacoma. Not as bad as the Capitol insurrection, for sure. But at this point we may be talking about a difference in intensity instead of a difference in character.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It seems to be your upset at being grouped in with the people who stormed your capitol, planned to take hostage your democratically elected senators, and overthrow your government, because of your shared look/ clothing brands? Which the group's themselves have chosen for a certain marketing look.

    If I were you I'd be more upset with the insurrectionists, who've caused this, then the people on random message boards who think it's hilarious you value brand loyality so much.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I was quite surprised and impressed that Fred Perry stopped selling their black polo shirts with the yellow trim in the US and Canada because of their association with the Proud Boys: Proud Boys Statement
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  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It's really bad for their own brand/marketing to be associated with white nationalists, it's a pity the GOP doesn't see that too #marketforces
  11. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Honestly dude, how dare you. I work in government. I work closely with law enforcement. Attacks like this are not just a threat on the fabric of democracy, they're a very personal threat against me and my coworkers. The officer who was killed, the officers who were beaten...they look like my coworkers. The staff-members hiding under desks? That could have been me. You have no dang clue how much time I've spent talking with other people about that or helping share FBI bulletins to bring the perpetrators of this attack to justice. Don't you EVER tell me that maybe I should be upset about the perpetrators of this attack. You have no idea what you're talking about.

    I was calling out the linking of (1) clothing associated with a lot of rural Americans regardless of their political beliefs with (2) a major attack on a government institution. Because except for the racial overtones, it's comparable to the people who link Middle Eastern garb with jihadism. Who ignore the fact that large swaths of the Middle East wear similar clothing regardless of their views and politics just because THEY'VE never seen someone dress that way in THEIR town, so clearly everyone who does must be a jihadist.

    So you think just because SOME of the people in the insurgency wore certain types of clothing associated with rural America, half of America should throw out their entire wardrobe they've owned for years and start dressing like metropolitan hipsters just to appease some folks on a UK message board? Instead of you not assuming that everyone who dresses like much of rural America dresses is a Nazi?
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  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Your tactical clothes are not comparable to your ethnicity, and really that's not a great comparison to make if you want to be taken seriously.

    If you don't like being associated with Nazis, don't dress like them, if you choose to keep dressing like them, guess what, you'll end up being mistaken for them, you may feel angry at that, but guess who's fault it is, Nazis!

    It's not rocket science, and it's really up to you.

    And considering we can't even see what your wearing, why should you even care what we think?
  13. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Then let's work with people who blamed black clothing and the goth scene for the 1999 Columbine High massacre. I remember that well. I was a goth in high school in Colorado. I didn't throw out my entire wardrobe because some commentator who had never even heard of the goth scene before that attack blamed everyone who looked like me. Who claimed if I didn't want to be accused of being like them I shouldn't dress like I did.

    You're no different right now, claiming that everyone who dresses in 5.11, Grunt Style, Thin Line, and similar style is a Nazi because, well, you said so.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'm not saying you are a nazi, I'm saying people in general will associated the look with the movement.

    There's no moral judgement call here.

    That's why many of the clothing brands have stopped selling the more unique styles that are associated with them.

    It's all just market forces, they don't want to be associated with those that burn crosses.

    Hell I loved my old black metal t shirts, but there's a time and a place for it, if I'm going to a christening, I probably won't wear a cradle of filth t-shirt. Then again if I want to be taken seriously by black metal fans, it's probably best I don't wear cradle of filth t shirts anyway!
  15. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    You just compared wearing the most popular clothing style in rural America in the past ten years with burning a cross.

    I'm totally done.
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Are you seriously complaining your being profiled and judged for wearing tacticool brands?

    That's such an American thing to complain about!
  17. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It's actually a rage against the machine reference too, I thought you were a goth in highschool?
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Gotta say that I'm with Mitlov on this one.

    People should be judged by their words and actions, not their wardrobe. Sometimes the two can be connected, as with the Proud Boys or Boogaloo movement, but you need more than clothing to make a judgement about someone. Judging people on their appearance seems a bit... fascist.

    It can be amusing to talk about militia "playing soldiers", but that is downplaying the military veterans and active service members amongst their ranks. Many of who have experienced internecine warfare and pose a significant threat.

    Obviously the exception to judging people on their apparel is insignia, though I do find it a bit exasperating how both the far right and left misuse the 3 arrows symbol. It's especially amusing seeing Proud Boys with the 3 arrows in a red circle with the line through it. I guess that means they are for monarchy, communism and nazism? True patriotic Americans!
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  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    We don't see rural Americans in the media here. We see fictional caricatures, and usually very outdated ones at that.

    We associate tacticool with militias and right wing fanatics because they are the majority of people we see wearing it.
  20. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I'm not saying it's right(wing) I'm just saying people will associate it.

    Also the phrase tacticool isn't used because tactical gear is cool, it was originally used sarcastically.

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