Congratulations America

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Dead_pool, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    The conservatives over here have used her murder to argue against the left recently, so I'm not sure it would.
  2. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    Ah yes, because "data driven journalism" where politics is concerned has been doing greeeeeeeeaaaatttttttttt. Especially randomized, online group invites. Get the hell out of here posting crap like this if you want to have a serious discussion man.

    It hasn't even been a long enough period of time for a poll to reach conclusions like this to be representative of a population. People are still mulling it all about in their heads, people are still in shock. This data is like most news . . . headline written before the event even happened. The event doesn't even matter, it's the controversy it drives. And you're just eating it all up while waving your fingers at people and you really, really don't see it.
    David Harrison likes this.
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Exactly my point that pointing fingers at Fox news and similar right wing outlets is missing half the problem.

    If it drives ad sales, it's good journalism!
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think we can't truly know what people think really. Especially people who know their views are not very nice and so, prior to Trump gaining power at least, often kept those views to themselves. One thing I think the rise of Trump has shown is it's a spectrum and on one side you have Buffalo man and Auschwitz man with a whole horrible grey area leading up to that. You have a fair number of people who wouldn't storm the capitol themselves but are fully in support of other people doing it. People who would drop some cookies round to a poorly neighbour one day and then scream "build that wall!" at a Trump rally and be in favour of rounding up immigrant families in camps. People who wouldn't wear an Auschwitz t-shirt but still think the jews and George Soros are a problem. Bloody Elbow has a whole article on figures in the MMA world who have spouted QAnon stuff and other rubbish and it seems to be a very common "leaning" I would say. In my view even voting for such a slime-ball as Trump is a major red flag for someone having views I would find questionable, so beyond acceptable do I find him, and there are millions of those people.
    What people truly feel and what people would truly do if given power or the freedom to enact their views is where the debate is I think.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  6. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Yougov is a respected polling firm, it's not journalism, and it's definitely not a left wing firm.

    YouGov - Wikipedia
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    No, but it is a public company that benefits from the publicity from headlines driven by its polls.

    The methodology they use makes sense for predicting election results, but less so for things like this. There is no incentive to be correct about this polling, as there is no immanent result to prove them wrong.
  8. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Theres is a huge cultural misunderstanding in this thread.
    The UK and the USA might share a language but have a huge cultural gap.
    Specifically the English flag is kind of like a Christian cross.
    Sure many an African American might have no issue Christian cross in most contexts (church etc)
    But one burning on their lawns is a massively different meaning.

    The English flag is often used by racists as a banner while they harass minorities in the UK. But come to a football match, everyone gets behind it.
    This is mostly because since the 60s, the far right have used football fans and anti immigrant sentiment to coopt the English flag to represent the downtrodden who identify as ethnically English and against "foreigners".

    Bare in mind, most people are okay with the union Jack as the "British identity" is multiethnic due to the 4+ nations.

    Nope still very white. The largest recruitment areas for the military are parts of the UK that are largely white.

    Theres nothing wrong with nationalism, but rigid and exclusive ethnonationalism is dangerous.
    America is actually a really hopeful project for a multiethnic/racial future for humanity, so maybe we should stop scrapping on their seemingly slow progress.
    It's easy for places like the UK to legislate issues of things like race and immigration when were quite homogenous, isolated and had racial slavery abroad (not much of a domestic history).

    Regarding the clothing - my father in law wears tacticool. Hes overweight and disabled.
    He is a vet, he wants to keep hold of this identity that makes him feel capable. This societal clothing conformity attitude is classist, sexist, regionalist and is often racist, not sure why you're repping it.

    Additionally we shouldn't crap on poor people for wearing trackies in the UK so why go after people wearing camouflage fishing jackets etc in the US...
    bassai and David Harrison like this.
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Plus most refugees granted asylum never receive British citizenship, they are given a right to remain.

    It's hard enough for commonwealth soldiers to receive the right to remain in the UK.
    Mangosteen likes this.
  10. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Only 15% of our population is "non-white", many are a free generations in but theres a cultural divide. most live in cities (not the deindustrialised areas where military is a "way out") and are from multigenerational households and families where you're expected to provide in person support (not just economic) to your relatives.

    It's easy for young men to join the military when theres very little expected of you - my uncle joined and my grandmother cried for a week, who would carry on the family or provide for her if he dies... (a crappy attitude)

    Where as for many young white brits serving, you have generations of service in families, it's the only way to escape your crap town or travel and it has been the way for generations of brits. Its expected you join for some.
    Dead_pool and David Harrison like this.
  11. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    Anyway, back on topic.

    Gamestop - I wonder if this will be a uniting point for left and right?

    Wealth inequality seems to be a uniting issue in the USA across the political spectrum.
    Dead_pool likes this.
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Any move to protect hedge funds with legislation will be viewed with hostility from both the left and the right. Free market advocates will balk at regulation designed to stop ordinary people getting rich, and those concerned with class struggle will equally be appalled at corporations taking priority over people.

    People are still smarting from the financial sector being bailed out in 2008, and that does unite most of the left and right.
    Dead_pool and Mangosteen like this.
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It's a shame none of the representatives and senators who leveraged conspiracy theories will face any consequences. No wonder they don't want witnesses at the impeachment trial pointing fingers at them and saying how they incited them.

    Imagine a world where politicians could be imprisoned for lying to the public. I wonder why they never push for that to come into law?!
    Dead_pool likes this.
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It will potentially unite honest people on the left and right, (aside from those who understand or think they understand the short term risks involved). But the political grifters, (Benny shaps etc) won't at all, and I'm pretty sure they make up the majority of the talking heads about it.

    Plus whilst it's a good story, and a reason why regulation is needed, Instability is still instability, our best hope is decent regulation in future to reduce the chances of another market crash.
  15. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    It's not "marketing gone overboard," it's self-deprecating humor. The 5.11 Tactical Kilt was literally an April Fools joke...and people who like tongue-in-cheek humor thought was so funny that they demanded 5.11 sell it for real. Same with the Tactical Baby Carrier. It's just a joke by people who can laugh at themselves. It's absolutely not a litmus test for white supremacy. You're just wrong on this one. Let it go.
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    You are correct, America is well known for having a great sense of humour and not having a problem with an overly militarised society.

    You've even (mostly) fixed the issue of all those school shootings this year, well done.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021
  17. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    *MOD NOTE*
    Drop the sniping and stick to the topic please
  18. David Silver

    David Silver Member

    The United States had 40% of citizens living at or below poverty before this zombie apocalypse pandemic. Systems have broken down so much, who knows what that number is now. The working class has to constantly claw for every tiny bit of freedom, equality and share of wealth they are allowed.

    We just had a rude awakening that the white power activists and actual flag-waving nazis are still quite prominent in 2021. No, not 1921, you read that right, 2021. The reason for that is simply a mind-blowing level of sheer stupidity running rampant. Stupidity so prevalent that one might argue it seems to be by design, as in civil engineering. What better way to keep the massive numbers of poor from rising up to "resolve" issues with the relatively few super-wealthy hoarder sociopaths than make them all fight amongst themselves? White vs black, middle class vs the welfare state...its a class war, not a race war. The 2% always wins.

    Fake patriots pretend to love the country, but don't care 45's merch is made in China, don't care the national parks are being fracked, don't care that their neighbors have less every year as a result of anti-social program propaganda. We pay thousands of dollars in annual taxes for corporate welfare to oil companies, but complain all day about that $63 that goes to help your fellow citizen pay their cancer medical bills.

    The USA can ALWAYS afford bombs and bullets and new military bases, but there is definitely not enough money for schools, or infrastructure repair, or you know, basic health care and quality of life for citizens. To be clear, we give them that money, and then they spend it on themselves and give very little in return.

    The current arguments about free college, and free healthcare, and free relief checks once per year are nothing but carefully-crafted mind control. THATS OUR MONEY. It is merely a reallocation of our already-existing massive fund paid as taxes by the working class, and primarily the "middle class". Ew. Millions of dollars are spent instead every year to spin IDEAS, to create false dichotomies and idiotic arguments of "left vs right" while actual meaningful topics are fully off everyone's radar, and more of our money is taken with diminishing returns.

    So yeah, USA! Its the same old nonsense. We need less "isms" and mindless parroting of talking points, and more efforts to help others.
    Xue Sheng likes this.

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