Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by kryptonite, Sep 3, 2004.
Yeah...I've heard that there are some pretty good dojos here on the west coast....*cough*
I go to Japan a couple of times a year, and I have found that Kyokushinkai is the jmost "popular" style there.
Therer are 12 million members worldwide...
There is a difference between public recognition and numbers of participants. The figures over recent years show that Shorinji Kempo is the most popular (read, most participated) martial art in Japan. This is mainly because of the large number of University and School clubs. At the moment I think there are about 2950 recognised branches in Japan. What does this mean? Not a lot. I usually only bring this up as way of demonstrating that just because someone in America or Australia hasn’t heard of it, does not mean it is some sort of insignificant back-woods art.
Earlier I thaught of kenpo as Japanese fencing 剣法 (sword method)bu only recently did I relize there was your kind of kenpo 拳法 (fist method).
That would be KENDO
Nope!Kendo 剣道 is far more refined almost philosophical concept.Kenpo 剣法 is much more similar to utilitarian kenjutsu 剣術.
I have been researching KEMPO/KENPO for over 20 years and have never heard a mention of " sword law " before
So what were you researching kenpo or kempo?...Because I am not aware of a "kempo" term.Here's my contribution for next 20 years of your study:
剣【けん】 (n) sword; sabre; blade; bayonet; sting; clock hand.
法【ほう】 (n,n-suf) method; law; rule; principle; model; system.
Here are some official Japanese dictionary entries on these terms:
拳法【けんぽう】 (n) Chinese art of self-defence；the art of fist.
剣法【けんぽう】 (n) fencing.
剣術【けんじゅつ】 (n) fencing.
剣道【けんどう】 (n) kendo; swordmanship; fencing; (P).
The po at the end does mean law, but it also means method. The use of law is used in the sense that it is the framework of how something works. In this sense Kempo means method of the fist, or method of the sword, depending on the kanji used. Rather than the way of the sword as in kendo.
Kempo is how it is used in Japan, I have been told that when m/n is followed by po it is pronounced m. For some reason American Kenpo use the "n" rather than the "m". So if you use kenpo as a search you may not come up with many Japanese forms hand to hand self defence. If you use kempo you will come up with many, especially Shorinji Kempo.
I suppose that by "search" you're refering to internet search.It's more a matter of Western interpretation than lingustic validness since any serious Japanese dictionary will tell there isn't any kempo "pronounciation".It's more about our ears playing tricks on us.
M or N to it is the same, I have been researching RYUKYU KEMPO the hand to hand style on Okinawa. The main linage being the Nakamura linage of Odo and Oyata. I have also compared that to Dillmans version due to the focus on Kyusho and Tuite. Then some White Dragon Kempo as found in Pia Lum Kung Fu the Family style of the late Daniel Pai. I just have never been one to research the japanese sword arts so have never heard Kenpo as a sword art , I prefer Filipino arts for blade work.
You didn't quite get me.I was only talking about linguistic issues.I trust you that both referals of "kenpo" and "kempo" in Western world are equally used.I was just assuming a side of Japanese linguistics.Anyways it's pointless to go on with this.I didn't intend to ruin your fun at this thread.
You have to look to the kanji, pronouncing "Kem" or "Ken" is not going to clarify...
That's why I posted kanji earlier in this thread!
This was my original understanding from a course in Japanese language I had done. Since then another kenshi who lives in Japan and works as a translator has told me about the differing soundings of m/n in connection with grammatical structure.
It's not that important to me, I only offered it as way of understanding why Japanese usually Romanise it as Kempo not Kenpo.
By the way, I don’t think you have ruined anyone’s fun, and I think the tread has helped all of us gain something. I had not heard of kenpo as a sword art, only kendo and kenjutsu.
I'm glad the feeling's mutual!
I may be wrong on this but I beleive the Kanji the Japanese use was taken from the Chinese. The "M" was used by the Chinese and the "N" by the Japanese. Both are correct. Like the word Senpai/Sempai
You will see it spelled both ways menaing the same thing. One is the Chinese original spelling, the other the japanese.
I agree , no fun has been ruined I come to these boards to learn and I now find myself wanting to look into the various sword arts outside on Kendo and Kenjutsu in japan.
Separate names with a comma.