Conditioning...

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by TkdWarrior, Oct 13, 2002.

  1. paul paterson

    paul paterson Valued Member

    Osu.

    There are many ways to condition your body and for most people in the MA the most obvious is to hit hard objects harder. Push-ups on the front two knuckles is a very good way to build up not only good muscle tone and strength but also it helps with fist alignment, helps with posture, and it can help you complete your push-ups more effectivly. Doing push-ups on the knuckles does not cause arthritis as is the same for doing it in a normal flat hand position. Arthritis comes in many, many different types and for most people the two main types are Rheumatoid and Osteo however some others are Still's Disease, Seronegative, Infective, Ankylosing Spondylitis, Gout and Lupus. For the MA the most common is Osteoarthritis, here we have two types; type A is Primary and type B is Secondary. With type B the most common problem is caused by an injury such as breaking your ankle or your wrist. If your lucky you can get away with just mild pain but for a lot of sufferers you will get pain that will drive you up the wall. For most people the diagnosis of osteo is the X-ray where it confirms loss of cartilage and formations of Osteophytes. Doing your push-ups on your knuckles or hands is good but please remember to use caution here, over doing it will cause pain and swelling. So use common sense.....

    To condidtion your knuckles apart from the push-ups can be done by hitting other objects such as the makiwara, such as soft wood trees, such as other students forearms and legs as well as their torso. The use of other peoples bodies is a very good one and can be seen by watching GoJu Ryu students, the best person by far that I have seen is Master Higaonna.

    So please, until you have tried it at first sight rather than hearing about it second or third time round. Then do not be negative, be proactive and have an open mind about it. Not one person that I know of and have trained with has ever said, oh......by the way don't do it cause it will give you arthritis or cancer. So please, please use more common sense here.

    Osu.

    Paul Paterson.
     
  2. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I don't need to take cyanide to know it'll kill me.

    I do know people who have managed to pick up arthritis, or at least badly deformed knuckles through doing the traditional fist conditioning methods. I also know so far three GPs and an osteo who have said that knuckle pushups can cause health problems.
     
  3. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Whatever Jimmy....

    BTW, echoing paul's words -

    |Cain|
     
  4. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    LOL!

    Try it just to see if we get arhiritis later on so we can say negative things about it? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Nah, simply means unless you tried it, you can stop makin' generalisations about it!

    |Cain|
     
  6. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I don't believe its that simple Cain, I must agree with Jimmy and Bon on this.

    Having an open mind is about listening to all options and making an informed decision. Not just trying is and see if your hands are knackered in 20 years time!

    I would not hit my hands/arms/legs against hard objects such as wood!
     
  7. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Nah! My senior's been doing it for 8+ years, my teacher and his teacher are doing it for 20+ and 40+ years respectively, I have been doing it for about 3 years! I know people who condition since 10+ years, and not one of them has gotten anthitis or any of the stuff mentioned in here!

    And your rite, it's not simple to make a generalisation about it :D:p

    PS - Andy, I never knew you play the piano :D:p:eek:

    |Cain|
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2003
  8. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    what abouut hand conditioning then? My initial reaction was 'this sucks. It is for losers'. I have yet to change it.
     
  9. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    You don't approve, and that's absolutely fine, but don't you think your response might be just a tad offensive?
     
  10. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Well, maybe it is and maybe I should be saying so in case someone gets hold of the idea that mashing their knuckles up is a good idea and goes to hospital... I also LIKE taking my stand against shotokan karate's evil empire.
     
  11. Adam

    Adam New Member

    As I have mentioned before, I've done some somewhat severe hand conditioning to the front knuckles and now have a lot of arthiritis in my fingers, fine motor skills like tying small knots is difficult for me and my hands look like something out of a horror novel. But I still believe it's worth it, since my two front knuckles are practically unbreakable now (I hope) and I have also gotten some rather strong finger muscles.

    I have little to no experience in this, but doesn't it hurt a lot to punch someone in the head bareknuckle and without hand conditioning? That would be a valid reason to do some hand conditioning, I think.

    This has been sort of overlooked in this thread, but tough hands are also important if you want to do the more impressive forms of breaking, but this is probably of little importance to MMA'ers.

    A good way for toughening knuckles:
    Trees...
    Must..
    Be...
    PUNISHED! :yeleyes:
     
  12. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Yeah, but I'd lay money it hurts the same WITHOUT hand conditioning. Incidentally: punching a bag with gloves on DOES condition your hands, but in a less dangerous way than wacking trees like a sucker! :D :p
    someone support me against these madmen!
     
  13. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    How about, you have your opinion.. we'll have ours. Post some relevant things rather than anti conditioning rants. I'm sure you're well capable of it.

    I doubt you'll get much support against the "madman", the rest of the members on here have respect for other peoples views, whether they agree with them or not.
     
  14. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    gulp. Fair enough. I'd better not argue with the feet. :)
     
  15. Adam

    Adam New Member

    You must mean WITH hand conditioning? Ha ha, I just took the money you laid down and ran, me jolly good mate! I don't think you know what a properly conditioned hand is capable of, no disrespect intended. How can conditioning your fist to the point where you can fist-break several concrete plates make you a worse fighter or be "not martial arts related?" Would you call that a quaint party trick too?

    I urge you to do some research into the late Mas Oyama. He is a very known example of what you can accomplish with superior hand conditioning. (Kyokushin_girl or Paul Paterson might have something to say about the man as well.)

    There ARE styles of karate other than Shotokan by the way, I believe you would find that some of them are sensible if you look into them.

    But of course, if you do glove fighting you don't really need all that much conditioning. It's up to you, really.

    Beware of THE HAND! :)

    And remember:

    Trees...
    must..
    DIE! :yeleyes:
     
  16. paul paterson

    paul paterson Valued Member

    Save the trees...eat beavers instead

    Paul Paterson.
     
  17. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    So you do condition your hands! :D

    We all condition, general training is enough for me, ie hitting the bag, not hitting the wood!

    Mental conditioning is always far more important than the body.
     
  18. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    True, mental conditioning makes you ready for strikes anywhere. Its no good having hard hands and a soft mind. Having both would be the best situation.
     
  19. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I know people with unbreakable knuckles, they got them by breaking them all. Most of them have difficulty holding a small pen now. Personally I'd say that nothing is worth the risk of never being able to type with ease again, or use my hands for anything detailed, but that's just my opinion.

    Firstly yes, I would call it a quaint party trick. Especially since the conditioning (at least the physical side) is completely unnecessary in order to break concrete plates, the conditioning that you do need for it is purely the mental drive to throw your hand with a huge force in a concrete block, whether your hand is conditioned or not, you do it right and the block will break.

    Damn, I've actually fought on the street and never done a stroke of conditioning. Guess it must've hurt my knuckles a lot more than it felt like at the time then.
     
  20. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    hehehehehehe...
     

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