Yes, the numbered sets (for instance) are not the actual fighting techniques, they are just the concept, like one-step sparring in Taekwondo or Karate. They only teach the most basic elements of body mechanics, not application- you only learn to actually use it through live practice. If you don't do that, your Hapkido will not work unless you just get lucky. It would be just like trying too learn to spar using only one steps.
Thomas thank you for your reply. Of course, there are different levels of force for different situations. I believe there are situations where punching someone who grabbed you would be justified, as well as situations where it would not. I wanted to make the point that people seem to forget "Hapkido" does not refer to just standing-joint locks. Rather, it is a complete art with striking and kicking techniques,
The problem is that if you are a bigger guy who actually knows how to punch, you might be ok. If you are a smaller guy such as myself @ 5'9 170 lbs... even though I would like to think I know how to properly punch it doesn't matter because if the guy is big enough you're punch may be something he laughs at. You have to be prepared to follow that single punch up with possibly more. I hit someone with my right hand and I'm going to assume already that will not be enough to knock him out, down, or discourage him, so a left hook will be right behind that and then an uppercut or whatever the situation calls for. Part of the idea that Thomas is speaking of is that if they are already grabbing your shirt... they have given you the best weapon they possibly could have. An immediate lock can be applied from a lapel/shirt grab... this ends the situation with the lock and hold. If he wants to continue.. it will only hurt him more, but you don't have to worry about how many knuckles you may break or bones in the guys face you might break. You also don't want to get into a slugfest with someone because it will only wind up ending with 2 guys getting arrested for "mutual combat" which in my state is illegal. A joint lock and hold isn't and is far less likely to get you in trouble.
hey! you're a cusser!! bad tapout boy bad! In all seriousness though. I started out in CHKD just learning the breakaways and that simple break falls... etc. As I have progressed to testing for my purple belt next week, along the way with each belt we will go through some knife and gun disarming techniques and how the locks and such we are doing can be handled. Of course my one instructor tells me that if it's face to face and you start to see the knife... run. If you don't have a choice it's obviously why we learn what we do. At purple belt, I wouldn't even attempt in real life to disarm someone like that unless I really had no choice and couldn't get out of it by just giving the guy my empty wallet or car. Some people just intend to hurt you no matter what you do. They already have it set it their mind.
Wow three blue belts! That is impressive and you might be able to trade them in for your purple belt. Seriously though are you really resorting to the what would a MMA guy do with a knife to his throat from behind argument?! By the way that no one but you has introduced here. It sounds like you are saying that you only train for weapons and multiple attackers. As for your comment about the BJJ being great but it has its limits. I agree and it's important to note that everything we do has limits.
I've trained at two Hapkido places, granted one to dan grading and a much shorter time at the other, a Sinmoo dojang. Neither had sparring, officially. Kudos because it seems like there are dojangs that attempt pressure testing. But I still don't see it as inherent to the art, like Judo for instance.
Okay, this is a good point, because this is one area where FULL SPEED pressure testing will change your perspective. If someone grabs you with one hand, you don't have to worry about the hand that grabs you, because he's got one free hand to hit you with. While it is true that correct Hapkido techniques will move your opponent's torso so that the free hand is out of play, even experienced Hapkido practitioners are often not fast enough 100 percent of the time to do a joint locking technique before getting hit. There are three times when you can get a lock of off a clothing grab before being hit. 1. The dude is just standing there and is holding you like a zombie 2. You are grabbed with both hands Or 3. You hit him first to distract him/cut him off from striking you Unbalancing with a pull works some time too (which you should combined with all of the above), but it is risky. Once again, if a bigger guy grabs you, you probably have made a series of mistakes that led up to that (stop mouthing off to people maybe), but I am talking about the fighting aspect of the art only. Don't take my word for it - try drilling it having partner use full speed and aggression, but make sure you know how to do it without getting hurt.
Unless you find a Hapkido place that does free practice you are better off training somewhere else. Bad judo, bad wrestling, bad jiujitsu, bad boxing, or bad muay thai will still work to some extent, but bad hapkido just will not work at all.
Any good Hapkido teacher, whether traditional or CHKD teaches to immediately get to the opposite side of an attacker away from their free hand. A fast and well trained Hapkido practitioner's locks will be so painful and so fast to your wrist, arm, shoulder, etc you will not be able to do anything.
yeah, well I just don't agree. This is one of the things that works great in theory, not when you try it full speed. When you are grabbed, you are most likely unbalanced, and you will have to recover your balance before you attempt locking, which means you are gonna get hit if you start messing around with the hand grabbing you instead of watching his free hand. I teach all my students to hit first, before locking. What's interesting is that I have heard Grandmaster Pellegrini say basically the same thing, but you are arguing the opposite case.
If this were the case, that lapel/shirt grabs can very easily be countered with a painful lock, why don't we see hapkido guys cleaning up judo/bjj competitions? Quite a lot of lapel and sleeve grabs going on there.
I totally agree. I don't want to hurt anyone. That is one of the reasons that I chose Hapkido, options. I can be as docile or as assertive as I need to be if ever the need arises. Even if I was justified to use deadly force, I would only use it if it saved another life. My two cents.
No an immediate lock can't be applied and the chances of it being done successfully are probably slimmer than you think. That lapel grab isn't unaccompanied most of the time, it doesn't exist in a vacuum waiting to be countered. Taking the initiative as the grab comes in, not getting lagged in OODA, then yes perhaps but if it's on and dug in it's a different matter. Also atemi and body movement needs to be pre-empting everything.
Put a boxing glove on your right hand, grab your partner with your left hand and then rain punches with your right. I think that is our drill tonight in our Hapkido Fundamentals Class.
if i can also comment on this particular line.... one of the things i find amazing about boxing, bjj and judo is that there are no advanced techniques, only advanced practitioners. the same guard passes i have been taught as a bjj white-belt, for instance, are the ones that black belts use. ilias iliades uses basic judo throws, like uchi-mata that all practitioners practice. the same four punches i've been taught as a total beginning boxer are the same manny pacquiao uses. i get the concept of starting with a wrist-grab or lapel-grabs to show beginners angles, lines, etc. safely. i no longer agree with that teaching methodology at all. because in my world, there is no difference between "advanced" and "beginner" techniques. my favorite choke, the one i've been working on from because it was shown during the first bjj clas i've ever done, the basic two-handed collar choke, is the exact same choke roger gracie uses in competition--the most basic choke there is.
I know little about Hapkido but from the perspective of the arts I do there was historically a very good reason for lapel and sleeve grabs. The problem is a lot of places teaching such things don't get their origin and use it as a bread and butter technique for modern self defence.
