Combat Hapkido

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by hardball, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I find it to be a very effective systems. There are some particular moves that I think... ehhh, that ones not something I feel would be good to use. However, I feel the same way about high kicks in cases of street defense... even in cage or Muay Thai for that matter. Leg kicks are used many more times for a reason. Therefore, we really could pick any style apart as to why it isn't that great, or doesn't work that well, but here again... experience IMO is what is most important. You also have to really love your art and enjoy doing it.

    Either way... for me the best thing is when my instructor can tell me to do whatever I want, no rehearsing, no ok I'm gonna throw a right hand, leg kick, head butt, etc. He has an answer for all of it and the answers can be a bit painful... but that's how you learn IMO.
     
  2. Sinmoo

    Sinmoo Valued Member

    Couple of points;

    GM P established CHKD in 1990 for the record in 1990 he just got his 1st Black Belt in HKD. So before the ink was dry he started CHKD.

    In 1990 after 12yrs I was barely a 3rd Dan not because I was bad on the contrary but because I really learned properly and put in the time.

    I dare say Master Mike Wollmenhouser would not think a first dan is qualified to start a HKD system. In my teachers Kwan after first Dan is when you start to learn refinements of basic level skills not start a new system.

    Second point someone said who cares how fast someone goes up the ranks. Truth is it depends, if your going to get fast promotions at least show your as good as the others at that level who spent years getting there. If your not as good it does not sit well with the ones who are and the people who are really training hard. Integrity of the Kwan is something that should remain an important tenet of the system.
     
  3. Sinmoo

    Sinmoo Valued Member

    You said it correctly sport provides a limited aspect of pressure testing.

    The armed forces only train in a sport sense and until one is in actual combat you don't know what will happen but our guys are of the best.

    Put a real knife in the hand of one MMA fighter and watch what happens or put Two on One in MMA ring or add a tire iron and see everything fall apart in an instant.

    Only reality is reality.
     
  4. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    Wow.... I've been reading this argument on forums for more than decade now. What's more, it always the same guys going back and forth for years and years now!

    I've seen some combat hapkido vids that were not that great in the past, but in recent years I've seen some that are really very good, particularly from an instructor who was muay thai combos as way to enter into seizing techniques. Personally, I don't think it's fair to evaluate a system on how it was founded 23 years ago. What they've done in the meantime seems to have some merit.

    In general, I find the idea of mixing a little Bjj, escrima, and silat with Hapkido kind of interesting, as I have studied all these arts separately myself. Everyone understands it's not traditional "Hapkido"' but who cares? There are plenty of guys who took decades to come up through the ranks with "legitimate" lineages who never do live training and have lousy technique.

    (Disclaimer: I am not connected with Combat Hapkido)
     
  5. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Didn't you admit that you know basically nothing about CHKD? No one cares how fast you flew through your ranks and you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. It's stupid. CHKD is only the very basics added in with different strikes as Thomas has so politely tried to tell you multiple times. As I myself had said before... it doesn't matter how fast he went up in rank... he has his own system. It's simple, it's to the point, and it can and has worked for those who really study and who really practice just like with any art.

    You're actually just coming across as a know it all and IMO not starting off on a very good note with those of us here who enjoy what we do.

    Keep in mind how much stuff Bruce Lee took for starting his own system, and didn't he progress fairly quickly as well?
     
  6. Sinmoo

    Sinmoo Valued Member

    Yeah who cares you are right.
     
  7. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Can you site your sources?

    From the info I've seen (posted earlier and from my interview with Joanie Wollmershauser), GM P actually got his 1st dan around 1988 or 1989 and then tested for 2nd dan a year later (which is a fairly normal TIG for Hapkido). So, he started up the program (most likely) as a 2nd dan. It does seem low, but keep in mind two things - (1) in the late 80s, there were a lot of people running schools who were 1st and 2nd dans (GM P was at least 4th dan in TKD and 2nd dan and rising in HKD), so this isn't that uncommon and (2) he had a lot of help from GM Wollmershauser (who had trained directly under Choi Yong-sool Dojunim) and GM Myung Kwang-shik (trained under GM Ji Han-jae).

    GM P, as any good student would do, turned to his seniors for help in creating and setting up the program. As I understand it, GM Myung Kwang-shik (who promoted him to at least 4th and 5th dan level) was very much involved in helping GM P bring in Hapkido, create Combat Hapkido, and collaborated on some Taekwondo exchanges. By the time GM P left the WHF/GM Myung, he had been promoted to "master" level in traditional Hapkido.


    I've never disparaged your skills. Having been on the mat with you and having seen videos (etc), your skills are excellent. 12 years to 3rd dan seems fairly normal.

    If I recall, you put a lot of time in for the lower ranks, spent time with other systems and instructors, and then as you hit the higher ranks were promoted a bit faster than average. How long was it between 6th and 7th dan and between 7th and 8th dan for you?


    As you know, with the founding of a group, there is always a lot of stuff that goes on. Combat Hapkido grew very quickly and some people used it to gain rank quickly (rank hop) and then move on. One thing I have seen over the past 10 years or so has been a stronger focus on enforcing "Time in Grade", enforcing the curriculum requirements, and focusing on better quality control. I think if you look at the next generation of Combat Hapkido black belts, there is much more focus on that.
     
  8. Sinmoo

    Sinmoo Valued Member

    I give up because it doesn't matter as that other guy said CHKD is an established system it passed the test of time and people like it regardless of the Founders methods. I suppose that is all that matters.

    Only a few senior students like me will remember anyway.

    Thanks for the kind words I also think you are an excellent martial artist and a nice person. :)
     
  9. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    and the guy that's never pressure tested at all is going to succeed in reality? that's total nonsense and you know it. i'd take your average boxer over your average [orthodox|sinmoo|combat|jungki kwan] hapkido fighter any day when "reality" hits.

    addendum...

    i've said this many times and i'll say it again. i love hapkido. i had a tremendous time training in it. but i left hapkido after dan grading because there was no mechanism to test the techniques.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
  10. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Can I pick the MMA fighter?

    Erik Paulson or Frank Mir

    Now I will take your bet
     
  11. jitz

    jitz New Member

    Kano (Founder of Modern Judo) proved that pressure testing was a must when Kodokan Judo went against other Ryu's of Jujitsu for the right to teach the police. Even though Kano took out the "killing" techniques and founded a safer way to do martial arts (sport), they beat the other schools hands down!
     
  12. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    That's why I also have a boxing coach.
     
  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    good idea!

    i mostly do bjj (gi and no-gi) and compete in ibjjf competitions, but also occasionally box and do eskrima. although not enough as i'd like. a little is better than none though.
     
  14. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    Every hapkido thread essential ends up with people from styles making the case that Hapkido will not work, and someone from Hapkido saying that their argument is in invalid because sport is not reality.

    Here's an idea...why not just pressure test (standing joint lock) Hapkido techniques? Just have a partner grab you with one hand and start punching you with the other, or push you violently against a wall, or try and drag across a line on the floor (to simulate being dragged into a vehicle)- be creative. We do all these things and more. In order to learn any thing you have to do it FULL SPEED. I believe that in order to use Hapkido standing lock techniques in live practice you have to simulate habitual acts of violence, because there are much better arts to use if you are looking to "square off" and fight.

    However- realize that it's all just for fun because if anyone grabs you in real life you can just punch them in the face or kick them in the groin.
     
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I believe that Hapkido as a style will work

    I believe 90% of people train it in a manner that means it will not

    I also believe this is true for the majority of martial arts out there

    The only major problem is the huge amount of sand that needs washing out from various orifices when you point this out to people
     
  16. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    aboslutely! this is exactly what's needed. i found someone at my dojang that was willing to train in such a fashion, and we made a lot of progress training in this way. i became way more fluid and creative in my techniques. i felt like i was light years ahead of the other black belts at my dojang because of it. at a minimum, all martial artists need to do something like this.

    but i found that there was a limit to our testing, and that limit was reached because there is not a mechanism for pressure-testing inherently built into the system. my friend and i bolted on "sparring" to our hapkido training; judo/bjj/boxing/muay-thai have pressure-testing built into the training, allowing practitioners to go much farther.
     
  17. peterc8455

    peterc8455 Valued Member

    You are correct "reality is reality"; however this is so disingenuous and I believe you may know it on some level.

    It's very discouraging to hear folks constantly playing the "weapons" and "multiple attackers" card.

    If someone's ability unarmed is lacking one on one, why would their chances be any better "two on one"?!
     
  18. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i've gone back and forth for the reasons for this. right now, i'm settling on a kind of stockholm syndrome with the teacher. we desperately want to believe because some guy is a "grandmaster" or "10th dan" or "founder" knows how to actually fight because if we didn't believe that, it would be hard to pry us from our money. so when someone says "martial art, not sport" (this was actually the motto from the dojang i got my black belt from), we desperately want to believe that. when all that's needed is to test what we've been given--test for ourselves.
     
  19. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    testify!!!!
     
  20. Convergencezone

    Convergencezone Valued Member

    Again, if you want to know if your Hapkido works against a stick, then just get a stick (a padded one) and try to brain your partner with it. This is not rocket science.

    My primary trad. Instructor was a Korean who taught Kuk Sool. Free fighting with locking, throwing, sweeps and take-downs was part of traditional training. Protective gear was not allowed. There was a special component called "soo sparring" that isolated the (mostly standing) joint-locking techniques against fully resisting partners. this was all traditional stuff, without bolt-ons from other arts (unless you count Trad. Chinese arts). Other Kuk Sool guys would occasionally visit us and not have a clue what we were doing. (We had virtually no contact with other Kuk Sool schools, by the way)

    It's true that 90% of martial artists don't train this way and I'll tell you why: it sucks. You are always injured and sore. Nothing else I have done, including BJJ and western boxing has been as unpleasant as my Kuk Sool training, although boxing was a very close second. EDIT: okay, Kyokushin sucked more - but in a totally different way.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013

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