hey i was wondering if anyone could tell me in the yang long form what are the combat applications for Left and right Strike tiger and cloud hands. thanks in advance
my instructor is with yang Jun at the moment IDK when he will be back. The replacement teacher couldn't remember (which is actually just a more experienced student). Also i got a feeling we arnt going to working on applications or push hands but nitty gritty details in the form (angles feet positions wait distribution excreta) because of yang Jun's feedback from the last seminar. I didn't go to it because of school but supposedly he thought there needed to be some changes and place more emphasis on that area for the students. just wanted to learn the applications because id never really did.
Since I don't have time to give a step by step breakdown of all 383 applications and their variations... Seriously,there isn't like one,or two,or six.There are some basic ones you can play with initially,w/a partner or w/out (shadow boxing) but as each ending posture is an endpoint after the transition moves there's a whole bunch of possible apps.Especially as an app doesn't necessarily look like a picture perfect form posture. Example-Hit Tiger on Right---limb destruction w/your right knee & right hand/arm on incoming left mid level side/front kick,step in w/right leg using left arm to sweep incoming right across opponent's body and execute right hook to jaw,or lariat around his neck to then continue on to...left knee to body as you pull him in & down,or pull him down & back to your right or.....see what I mean? A person w/experience can figure out some obvious simple ones.I'd suggest if you want some "textbook" ones you should obtain some books containing apps.Andrew Lum,Yang,Jwing-ming,Wang,Pei-shan spring to mind.Yang and Wu (Wu,Chien-chuan) are so closely related that an example of an app from one easily fits the other. Does you instructor teach apps?As in you practicing basic ones on each other?
first of all, what lineage of tai chi do you follow and how do you guys do those movements. they may look completely different in your style than in ours, and have a completely different application that might not be workable in ours (and vice-versa)
I train in Yang family tai chi my teacher does teach basic applications as we go through the form but mostly he teaches us to adapt in push hands and shows us where the postures pop up.
I cheated.I figured AF was doing Yang as he stated his teacher was with Yang,Jun.The authors I mentioned were 2 Yang guys,1 Wu/Ng guy. It doesn't matter too much if the postures/transitions are a bit different.These things change in the matter of apps.Wang's Wu Brush Knee is executed differently in the form than Lum's Yang,but a Yang or Wu practitioner can use both of their applications due to the similarities in their moves.(Now referring to a Chen book for apps to a Yang form would be more limiting). Hit Tiger Right in two different solo forms is a good example.In method A you end up w/the torso facing the same way as the R foot,in B you've opened at the hip to turn the torso 90 degrees away from the R foot and leg.In application you can use either way regardless how your solo form goes.Depends on the changing situation of two bodies in motion.You might even sit back on the L foot in method B if you throw a R hook,which means you won't look like the end posture in the form which has the weight on the R. You practice basic textbook apps which reflect your form,but don't be surprised if in freesparring it comes out different.Adaptation in the moment,y'know.
You can play a simple game... Have someone attack you at medium speed - fast enough so you react spontaneously and slow enough that you do not go into survival mode - defend against the attack and then stop and see what you did and where in the form the movements/postures/techniques came from .... You may well be amazed at the applications that you discover All the best. Robert.
Here's a couple of basic suggestions and ideas to look at and play with. cloud hands - look at entering and bridging inside, pummeling for overhooks and elbow cracking (attacking the elbow joint with an arm wrap/ overhook). hit tiger - look at inverted vertical hook punch (high punch) and a standard vertical hook punch for the low one. notice how from that double overhooking clinch the inverted high vertical hook punch is a perfect fit from that position as is the low hook punch. The two can combine nicely, use clouds to get the overhooks. Then use the strike(s). You can combine the punches as in the form and drive them through to apply coupling force (lieh/ split) simultaniously to the opponents head and torso causing imbalance and break of structure. In CMA it is sometimes said a strike is a throw and a throw is a strike.. With this look to combine leg blocks/ trips and sweeps for added takedown technique. In Wu style hit tiger in the slow form actually has a outside leg hooking shown explicitly. In these forms there is possibilities of tripping implied by the empty foot being drawn back on the toes as is evident in some high pat on horse postures for example. Stepping and foot placement can sometimes imply kicking and are manifestly expressed in some forms. Even in cloud hands there can be kicks - see wu style fast form. Also, for example if a heel is placed down deliberately in the empty leg that could signify a hidden heel kick for some folk. It is sometimes said in CMA every step is a kick and every kick is a step. For usage the lesson is to be looking to combine upper and lower. A lot of the kicking in tc can be real low almost stomp like which fits with the dirty boxing style of fighting in tcc nicely.
