Clip Representative of Kempo?

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by flashlock, May 15, 2007.

  1. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Danjo all you needed to say, was that they needed to apply their new techniques on each other, and perhaps dare use the taboo word we don't speak of! (Aliveness).

    But that woulda been painful and taken effort....better to just throw some throat and groin shots into the moves, say it's too deadly and call it a day.
  2. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Danjo mentions,
    I almost wish that people would go out and get into some fights before training. Several bouncers that I either worked with or have since talked to did this. THey already knew what their weaknesses were before starting karate (or whatever) training. So when they learned something that was useful, they knew it right away and could field test it imediately. These guys would swear by the effectiveness of karate etc., but it's because of how they went about learning it and the attitude they brought to it. They already knew how to fight, they just used karate etc. to become more effective at it.

    I'll say,

    Bad information in my opinion and stupid to boot. That is a bully concept not a self defense and protect and serve, attitude by a long shot.

    One of the reasons schools have taken a not touching not returning punch, shove, nothing... You will be suspended or expelled.

    Lets get into the main stream of life here and not some dream world where you go beat up an innocent for your satisfaction...That is jail time from where I am coming from. On the job training, with right makes might, not some fly by night, sneak around and beat up people. LOL...

    That is why they have seminars and such...Come on, that is bunk...

    Are you an instructor and spewing this to your students :eek: It might have been ok in the 50's, 60's, 70's, but not now.

    Bouncer use to be a good term, long ago, but not now (security is the term) Unless you are working somewhere and shoving around husbands that don't want their wive's to know, other wise you are into a law suit. IMHO...

  3. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I almost wish that people would go out and get into some fights before training
  4. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    It was written by a true officer of the LAW!
  5. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Kempofist I know, but it was a chance to say something to Danjo. There are three other words that will get you into a lot of trouble also,.

    What if this, how come this, what if he, how about this, how come that, then there is, I almost wish. It goes on and on and on.

    Then of course there is the most famous, I hate you, I hate grappling, I dislike you, I love kempo, or the real infamous ones, better or worse, sickness and health. Some even talk about, hope, faith, charity.

    Then you have... kenpo...will, mind, spirit...Go Shin Jutsu/Jitsu

    Self, Defense, techniques. 123 again...

    Go Shin Jitsu

    Go shin jitsu means self defense. When I practiced Kenpo, I remember that the complete name of the art was Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo Karate.

    Today, some Karate instructors will specifically teach go shin jitsu -- self defense techniques.

    This makes me wonder. Isn't Karate by its very nature go shin jitsu? Karate is an art of self defense.

    But in many modern forms of Karate, the emphasis is on kata and kumite. Kata is form and kumite is sparring. Unfortunately, many forms of kata lack "fight" and many forms of "kumite" lack practical application because of limiting rules. Thus, go shin jitsu has to be taught as a separate subject.

    But kata should be full of "fight" and pairing off techniques should have practical application. Everything we do in Karate should have an identifiable go shin jitsu element. We learn kata based on self defense techniques. We kumite to practice self defense. We learn body dynamics to enable us to use our self defense techniques more effectively. Go shin jitsu is not a separate element -- it is the fundamental building block of Karate.

    The same is not true, for example, in Judo. Judo is a sport and governed by rules to determine who wins and to protect the participants. In Judo, it makes sense to teach go shin jitsu separately. Judo does have practical self defense applications, but they differ from the sport elements. After all, throwing an attacker is of little use if he just gets up and continues the fight.

    This is not so in Karate, at least with respect to old style Karate in which everything we do is go shin jitsu.


    Charles C. Goodin

    Thanks for the lead kempofist. I just, parried, controlled, threw...

    The idea about karate and kenpo is creativity, where did the art come from, who created it,& where does it stop. Your own imagination, is the limits.

    All 3 word thoughts, see simple... create, capture, controll.

    stop, fight, kill. So where does it stop???

    :D :D :D

  6. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Well, it depends on who "they" were. I think that "They" did train with "aliveness", but that those that followed didn't always. I think they trained even less so as time went on and tournaments came into vogue etc. Aliveness is very important, but once you accept that, you're left with which art to train alive in. Most people don't want to fight football (American) or Rugby players because of their "aliveness" training. They are physically strong, well conditioned people that don't mind hitting and getting hit and are used to it. That makes them tougher than the average person out there. However, if I were goig to learn how to fight, I would start off by trying to imitate a football or rugby player. I'd find a fighting system to train ijn that trained properly. That said, I think that there are better arts to train in than BJJ if both are being trained with aliveness. Arts that address a wider array of techniques and scenarios that one is likely to find oneself in.
  7. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Damn it! I better stop field testing my techniques on my students then!! Arghh!! Back to the drawing board I guess.

    So Gary, how many husbands are you shoving around, and what exactly is it that they don't want their wives to know about you and them?
  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Oh don't be shy Gary. You can say something to me any time.
  9. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    True Danjo and I'll throw in this, about that.

    Larry Hartsell is very good, he trained with football players he trained them and he is good at what he does, also, so did and does Richard Bustillo. How about Dan Inosanto??? How about Judo Gene, Gokor... (Bruce Lee) and of course Bruce whats his name from Sacramento CA. Hmm How about Hackleman??? Now there is a young guy :eek: Funny "young" and "GM" are just not in the same sentence are they?

    Kempofist, all old guys today or would be, they can still teach you and make you into what you desire as long as you have that desire and ability to get it done.

    Best, is not the style, but the information and how it is used and misused. The keys. Heck I could train you, and you would still be good (if you had confidence in me) if you seek and create and learn...Simple.

    Goes back to Kosho, and meditating under a pinetree, and creativity. :D :D :D

  10. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    Nope not me, at one time it was that way booking husbands who are out and about and begging us not to tell anyone about it. Yea right buddy you are headed for the slammer, get a good story together and don't change it.
    Never admit to it, amigo. They want to believe you... :Angel:

    Pathetic to say the least.

    To be forgiven is where they are hoping, must be or else why would you go there. It is not real, only make believe... Sad :google:

    Faith is a beautiful thing they say...

    I've been married for 45 years this June...Hmmm Same for her to me.
    Not based on faith, but honesty. Semper Fi...114 and all that.

    Gary :)
  11. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    Wow your kempo school must have sucked! Did it get better when you quit teaching there?

  12. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Look, this is a bit pointless. Kempofist has already admitted that his school sucked and that he learned and taught nothing of value there. He has since moved on to something he likes a lot better.
  13. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore


    I'd have to compile my discussions on BS on the matter, but in short I can't fully bash my old school as much as I'd like to....actually who am I kidding, course I can!

    But in all honesty, compared to a lot of the other kiddie krotty/kung fooey/TKDon't schools in the area, they were top notch. Majority of the instructors were great with kids, and everyone got a good dose of exercise (conditioning was through the roof). But the Bullshido-level of the instruction and techniques themselves was and is unbearable. I could write a book of one-liners I've heard in class, and just title it "LOL Ke?po."

    Such gems as, "I see these Gracie guys....and they're gonna waste all this energy goin down here and struuuggglllliiiiing for this choke"
    *demonstrates pitiful RNC on uke sprawled out on his stomach*
    Why would I do that when I can just use what he's given me?
    *applies two-finger press to some alleged pressure point on the uke. Uke begins tapping the mat uncontrollably, begging for mercy*

    Or, when Matt Hughes faced Royce Gracie in the UFC...
    " guys going to be watching the fight? Good, cause tonight you're gonna get to see a striker beat a grappler"

    Or, when it was discovered we stopped teaching chambered punches from horse stance as part of warm-up basics, and instead switched to padwork... "What are you guys doing!? You think you know better than us? I've been doing this since you were in diapers! What do you want? You think you can just have some student come in off the street, and you're gonna tell him to just put his hands up like this and expect him to get it!? You can't run before you can crawl!

    Our response to that last one.... "yes....and we have done fact we got a 4yr old to do it....he was pretty good." And yes, that sure sent them through the roof.
  14. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    the scope of the pointlessness is indeed much larger than you describe.
  15. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    You need a time out dude. You are taking the internet too personally. There are things to see, people to do!
  16. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    In the last fight between Shamrock and a Gracie where Shamrock was DQ'd for the knee to the head..That just told the world what it is all about...IMHO

    "Catch Can" wrestling is Shamrocks style and Judo Genes. I'd study it if I were younger. I have quite a bit of time on the mat with it, but that was long ago. I have goofed with grappling in the last few years but nothing serious, except when I had 2 ribs seperated almost 2 years ago.

    Good thing to learn and know, as in survival and what you do to survive. No one has the best all the time, they all have what is being used at the time in their life...

    Check this one out.

    Like you Kempofist you will change your path and rightfully so. Mark my words. As all the above have done, change...

  17. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    It is tough to site a DQ technique as an example of a superior fighter or style. If you go back and watch the fight, there were ample opportunities for Gracie to knee Frank in the head and in a much better position to land the knee. He chose not to because he didn't have to. If it was allowed in the rules, I am sure he would have thrown that in there.
  18. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I don't think it is superior, I believe it should have been handled different. It was a bad call IMHO...

    Should have stood them up and let them go again.
    DQ is pretty bogus for that spot, and how it happened. Politics :bang:
  19. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    Shamrock was warned in the previous round for the same thing. It was not the first time it happened in the bout. Herb Dean just followed the protocol for that bout.
  20. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    It's been answered already by Nuck and Guf, but I just have to add; Gary, I'm not sure what your point of citing the Frank/Renzo fight was, but kneeing someone in the head illegally does not make one a better fighter, more "real" fighter, or any other term one could think of. Renzo was on top side control the entire fight, and Frank was helpless to do anything about it. Under Pride rules the fight would have ended a long time before Frank even could have thought about throwing knees, because Renzo would have slammed his own knees into Frank's head till the ref would be forced to step in and stop the one-sided beatdown. If you thought Franks kneeing by kicking off the fence was impressive, just imagine Renzo raising his leg as high as he could go, and letting that come crashing down with as much force as he could muster behind them.

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