Clip Representative of Kempo?

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by flashlock, May 15, 2007.

  1. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned


    I posted the Chuck Liddell item because he is now a purple belt in BJJ they say.
    :D
     
  2. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    What gets me about alot of these Gracie challenges is that the guys they fight seem just as unprepared for the clinch as for the ground. They literally look like they've spent ALL their time at punching and kicking range. As soon as someone gets hold of them they've got no balance and no defence/offencive stratagies.

    To me trying to cope with ground work if you're predominately a stand up fighter means three things:

    1) Defending against getting taken down

    2) Getting back up ASAP when you are taken down

    3) Actually fighting on the ground

    I think all three are important and should be trained but for a striker I think number 1 is probably the most important. Its been the strikers who have had alot of skill in this department that have often had the greatest success in MMA in my opinion.
     
  3. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I noticed this too, and have experienced it myself -and I suck at takedowns/clinchwork IMO. A lot of people unless they happened to wrestle back in high school, have no idea how to keep their balance against someone trying to offset them and take their legs out from under them. Personally I prefer it that way....less time I need to spend cross-training Judo and Wrestling on thursday nights.
     
  4. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    And the purpose of posting Chuck was what exactly? Is Chuck an example of Kosho now? I don't see why not, every other person who claims some abstract lineage back to Emperado claims Chuck as an example of their skill. Go for it!

    Nothing like a guy who kickboxes, wrestles and does Jiu-Jitsu (yes he's a purple...might be a brown by now, I haven't checked), hasn't done a kata in his life, and runs an MMA school to point to as an example of Ke?po prowess.
     
  5. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Same as with me actually. I started Judo because I kept getting thrown in san shou training and during sticky hand practice (we often do it with throws and during our summer camp it was outside on grass, which hurt!). I don't hugely enjoy stand up judo as I'm rubbish at it but its an important part of fighting.

    Isn't it great trying it on people who have never done that kind of training before? One guy who has very fast hands and good footwork and used to hit me quite a bit doing sticky hands was quite surprised when I pulled off a hip throw against him! :D
     
  6. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I wish. My throws suck. It does feel good when I get someone down though, and I get cross-side and they can't get away. Especially at throwdowns where there's often some guy who tries to ineffectually grab at your face, and realizes they are just offering their arm to me. I've been meaning to head down to the takedown classes on Thursdays that my school offers (we got some reputable Judo and wrestling guys who run it) but I just can't get up the will to. Last time, I spent the whole class getting my ass slammed once we started live drilling :D

    My bread n' butter takedowns are; Double leg with hooking the post (modified), High single, inside leg trip, Banana Slip, and a modified fireman carry.
     
  7. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Maybe start with a yellow, work your way up. :)
     
  8. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I took Judo and found it very frustrating to get good throws accomplished against anyone that knew how to defend against them. After a while, it seemed that only those that were very skilled could throw me either. They were very experienced and quick as hell.

    However, when I started training Kajukenbo, I found the same types of throws easier. The two big reasons for this are 1) My opponents don't have years of Judo training and 2) the throws are preceded by a punch to the face, limb destruction or a shot to the nuts. I wonder how many of my old Judo classmates could have been thrown much more easily if I had kicked them in the nuts before attempting the throw?

    Point is, one needs a lot less skill at throwing if it's mixed with other things like punches and kicks as an opener. I notice in the UFC etc. this seems to be more the way to do it now a days. Very often strikes or MT kicks to the leg are used to close the gap before the takedown or clinch is attempted. Kajukenbo has used this principle for years. Using strikes to close the gap into trapping, clinching or grappling range has been a staple of Kajukenbo since the beginning, and they've never been uncomfortable in those various ranges.
     
  9. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    One can only dream.
     
  10. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    So you land a lot of good throws when you are sparring then?

     
  11. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Yup. Especially hip throws, reaps and sweeps. I don't recall ever doing a shoulder throw during sparring, although I did throw someone over my head when they grabbed me from behind during a two on one session of bull in the ring.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2007
  12. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    I posted the Chuck liddell story to have others read. He is now considered the hardest puncher at the weight class. He is also someone who is a good ground person be it grappler, Brazil, Japanese or American type (greco).
    The point is he is getting better at staying out of harms way when on the ground and pound that happens sometimes to him.

    The fact that he is now doing the BJJ is good and he is now going to fight a man he will need all his abilities for the defense of his title that is up coming "Quinton Jackson"...

    Liddell's record is...

    Wins 20
    By knockout 12
    By submission 1
    Losses 3
    Draws 0

    Now the article mentioned he just recently received his purple in BJJ. I believe it is a recent update regarding the article (on going information). He has a better chance if he does not try to submit, it appears.

    When I talked to his head coach (John Hackleman) on the phone he mentioned that Liddell still put on his gi and did his Kenpo work all the time.
    (When talking to him I was more interested in the history of Walter Godin and if the book he had started was ever going to get written)

    It will be interesting to see what his game plan (hackleman) and execution (liddell) will be with the fight coming up with Jackson. The article mentioned May 26, it is not that far away.

    The reason for all this is to answer YOUR question Kempofist, and the reason why I posted Chuck Liddells history in the first place to point out he is a BJJ man also...

    A well rounded MA is superior to one who is not IMHO. But that does not mean they will always win.

    I look at it like working your own body, you need to be well balanced first, then you can improve in your legs or your arms if that is where you want to. But the well balanced is a good location to be.

    They say Chuck Liddell can hear John Hacklemans (suggestions or orders) over the crowd and relies on it heavily in the ring.

    I don't do much Kata, but I do some. Those who do kata consider it the core of their training.

    I believe you are right now in the mode most white belts are in regarding the art they do...That is good for it is what helps them in learning, most don't go very far in training they burn out and go do something else. You will notice I still train and do what white belts are known for (student). That is the best thing I believe, I never allow myself to be what you have become, "jaded" as you are toward Kempo. You have not been doing it long enough to be so outspoken, why I thought it would be a good thing for you to go see a different take on what is out there in the Kempo community...

    Term jaded, is perfect for the way you are acting of late on this topic IMHO...
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/jaded

    You and Guf have similar experience's in regard to your disillusion to what you were trained in for some time. It is apparant you both have similar personalities regarding your thoughts about how you were treated and lost respect for the art, you were in at one time. It is common among some types to react like you are doing. You need to get away from it and just enjoy what you are doing and remember it is part of your training whether you like it or not. :topic:

    Regards,
    Gary
     
  13. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Couldn't agree more. When you're restricted to just grappling, let alone just takedowns, the person is more than a bit prepared for it! But when you punch him in the face first, that hip throw is looking awfully a lot easier to get a hold of :D
     
  14. BGile

    BGile Banned Banned

    The term "bull in the ring" you are using is one that has been around for years in football and I have heard it in seminars at location's I have gone to.

    The drill is a good one.

    I was curious, are you padded in these encounters? One question.

    Another question...

    When you are doing the drills when the circle is about 5 or 6 persons and you are alone in the center the instructor yells out a number (the people are numbered and walking around you and can be in front or the rear or side and you are trying to be ready for any attack) are you trying to always face your opponant and take them on from the front only? Or do you allow them to attack from where they are coming, with a yell to advise you where they are and you then respond?

    I am asking because there are varients that I have seen, and been involved with also...

    We did some drill's while I was a LEO (Bob Koga stuff long ago) in the academy which we had to do while engaged and fighting, others grabbing you unexpectantly, or saying I am throwing a punch at you blah blah... I found that varient, to be very usefull in training.

    The speed was not at full combat, but it was a good drill.

    Mostly the full combat was used on mats and with referees and very fast reflexes to avoid injuries. I believe that is why Big John (ref) of the UFC is as good as he is, at what he does, (protecting the injured) for he has done that type of training (instructor) to protect the recruits in the academy.

    Another thought, when doing the drill, I have witnessed some real abuse, how do they handle that in your school?

    Any clips on this around?

    Gary
     
  15. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    It also existed in bullfighting....in a ring....some say that's where it originated, but I'm pretty sure the Japanese must have had some influence on the term.
     
  16. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=5T6TI_3rdpg
     
  17. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Very good point. I find it very hard to throw people when playing a "judo-only" game. However, I have a habit of shoulder/hip throwing my students during sparring (once they have some experience behind them that is, I treat the white sashes with some kindess). It works well, I don't feel exposed, and they end up on the ground with my knees pressing down on them. Heck, I like it better than a double-leg takedown, although it's not as universally available to execute (I do have to have their arm).
     
  18. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I'm sorry...I must have missed something here. What question did I ask, and how is this answering it?

    Jaded? Perhaps. Bitter? Resentful of time wasted? More than likely. But I put those emotions into two positive routes. a) Making myself train harder than ever to make up for lost time, and b) Letting people know the truth, so that they don't get led down the same path I did.

    As far as doing Jiu-Jitsu long enough to be outspoken, what about my outspoken support of other arts that I haven't trained in such as Boxing and Muay Thai? Had I never trained a day in my life, but knew what I know now about proper training methodologies, I'd still be an outspoken admirer of Jiu-Jitsu and other such arts that have proven themselves. You don't need to train in something to know that it is proven. If the Yankees kept winning the World Series, would you criticize me for claiming that they are a great team even though I have only been playing and competing in baseball for a year or so?

    I don't speak for Guf, but I find it far more rewarding (and entertaining) to crack other peoples delusions who are in the same boat I was in. What I wonder, is why you have made it a mission to spread the good word about an art you barely train in (Kosho)?
     
  19. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I think "Barely train in" is a bit of an exaggeration. Let's say rather, "Have read about on the internet."
     
  20. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    (Bold mine). You really throw the crap around, kempofist. :) You switch from attacking people not sticking to an art long enough (salad bar MA) and blabbing on about things they only have a few months experience in, then you come up with this gem. How convenient (for you).

    You stink.
     

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