Hi Kempo, It is about learning the various ways to defend yourself from someone who wants to take you down, you want to stay on your feet and fight... You really must remember, wrestling and judo have been around for years and years. It was always something you concerned yourself with where I worked, losing your footing or going down and getting kicked by others was a big no no. To stay on ones feet is an art form in its self. You notice when the kenpo guy went down he had a moment he could have really hurt Royce, but it was not allowed. The icepick elbow to the back area between the shoulder blades and or the neck, is what could have been done at the proper time, and the below person would go to the ground (usually) but you need to think and practice that tech. Pain has a way of having your body involuntarily going away from it. At that precise time he (royce) would have gone to his face I am thinking. Then knees to the back and head. Oh well. The failure to show: As far as you going and meeting the ones I set up for you, it would have been something that you would have enjoyed...It was not to fight but an observation and a unity of learning the art. Maybe you would have been so overwhelmed you would have spent some money, and bought something. It is not to fight it is to learn how to escape, with the right moves and then also being able to apply the techs that would be taught to counter. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained. You can't win the lottery, if you don't play. Chances like that don't come around much..But your young. Gary
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! So what's this about me showing them how their lack of ground-game would be their undoing and then failing to do so? How would such a scenario have come about? And take no offense, but I sincerely doubt you have connections to pull a few strings to set me up with some sparring match with someone who is probably too busy counting his tuition fees to worry about proving himself to some no-name like myself. If Joe had offered me such a challenge, with sufficient reason, I'd be tempted to take him a bit more seriously than yourself due to his position. Keep telling yourself that Gary. I'm sure a bunch of old men during a gathering where they are simply having some group seminars and doing something nice for their students would want an outsider to come in and Gong Sau them.
You were not there to Gong Sau but to learn and enjoy. And yes I have the power and the connections to do what I did for you...You know nothing about what this old man's position is, since you fail to grasp the whole of my being at all. You are showing your age and where you are coming from more and more, and it is through this inexperience you are talking at present. Sad, but true Kempo. Now if you will remember, my last post to you about the choking out and losing your ability to retain fluids and such. Did you check that out or not. I know you don't want to believe me, but I have done that to more people over the years as a street cop, than I have fingers. But don't take my word for it. Ask others who know me, call the dojo and talk to the owner and friend Pat Kelly. But then all he has heard are the stories, so maybe he does not know either... Gary
I'm sure Dan will have something witty to say in response to this. I'll let him have fun. Why yes actually I did. I checked with numerous Jiu-Jitsu guys who compete regularly, and choke people unconscious regularly, as well as checking with a friend of mine who's an EMT and amateur MMA fighter. General consensus is that it CAN happen if everything is wired just right (or wrong in this case) and well....**** happens (pun intended), but at best it's something that's fairly unlikely to occur. And only one person I spoke to had even heard of something through hearsay of it actually happening during training, but for all we know it may have just been another internet rumor, because he couldn't even remember where he heard it from. This reminds me of the rumor that Gene Lebell made Seagal ****/crap himself. Both stories make me smile You mean your stories? Yeah, maybe he doesn't know either
Yes I'd be worried if I was just a young man and knew very little in how to defend myself. Only played at it in the gym and with friends, never felt the anguish of having to take someone out, and leave them injured for a long time or kill them at a moments notice. Bravado is all I see with some or most of these of late. I feel most of the persons who want to train and be in shape and have a good life are not willing to go the extra mile. Kempo has proved that to me. Not like you and I Nuck, who met and enjoyed ourselves for the afternoon, huh. Gary
Well I am not sure about the stories of Judo Gene, I'll ask him when I see him this summer. Now as far as the knowledge about the choking, you are really out on a limb here, I am not going to cut it for you, because you already have. The thing is I believe it is time to accept the fact that you are just much more experienced and knowledgable, so with that I'll just let it go. Gary
Yes, I believe it's a difficult question. You do have to weigh things up and think about things. I, obviously, came to some conclusions that drastically changed my views on fighting. To each their own! What you state above, about just getting the basics of getting to your feat, escaping guard, and escaping mount, etc.--I'M NO EXPERT--but to me this seems like a reasonable way to go if you do not want to just give in and turn your focus from stand up to ground focussed. If you do, it's a big change (that much I DO know!).
Wow....oh wow....I'm speechless.....that is the funniest damned picture I've ever seen! Tell me that isn't Tatum! Oh man Gary... well played, well played
First off, let me say :YES!!! The Gabster is back!!! Now, I'll move onto other issues. Gary, of course you know that knees and elbows have no effect on one trained in the art of BJJ. I mean, have you ever heard of someone like, say ummm...Ralph Gracie getting KOed by a knee to the head when he was coming in for a take down? You HAVE??? You mean it's actually been on film??? Damn it! There goes my theory. Maybe I should just go get choked out and crap myself.
Most of the basic tricks to avoid getting taken down can be taught in a few hours to the average person. The biggest problem with most stand up MAs is that they don't train to fight against opponents from various ranges and of varying skill levels. They therefore tend to freeze up due to being freaked out at finding themself in and unfamiliar situation. They tend to train to fight against someone from the same style, or someone that has no idea that they know anything at all until it's too late. In the first case, it's due to the inherent nature of training. In the second, it relies on the element of surprise, i.e., some a-hole accosts you not knowing who you are or what you know until he's on the floor in pain because you weren't a pushover like he was expecting. The first situation is unlikely to arise outside of the dojo. The second is more likely if you look like a total whimp and are in the wrong place, i.e., a violent bar etc. If, however, you want to be able to beat people that might well not take you for a pansy, might have some skill of their own (from either training or experience) that differs from your own training, and still be able to beat them, then you will need to train in a way that really works. Ask bouncers at those violent bars how they do things. Ask police officers who have to serve warrants on violent criminals. etc. etc. Then incorporate that into your training. Techniques in a martial art are nothing more than manifestations of a concept of fighting. They are the expression of a fighting principle. how realistically you train those techniques is up to you. I know that where we train, we train for reality 90% of the time. As a result, we don't always win big a tournaments against schools that train for them regularly. What typically happens when we go is that our opponents get the living hell kicked and punched out of them and then they win on points while we walk away pretty much unscathed. Our punches don't typically impress the judges, and we like to grab and punch and elbow etc. throw down and stomp. Many is the time when one of our opponents limps, wobbles and staggers up to get their first place trophy while we sit un-injured and watch them. Oh well. I've seen other schools who ostensibly teach the same basic techniques, but don't really train for reality. The results are going to be a lot different. Too bad our instructor doesn't have a purple belt in BJJ. Then we'd learn how to fight for real. Yawn. Whatever.
BJJ and Kempo When I taught Kempo, I would address the ground not with the intent of defeating people skilled there, but getting down the bare basics to get back to ones feet against at best an unskilled opponent. Examples of this would be how to control distance with a closed guard, how to escape the mounted position, how to sprawl etc... Nothing fancy, just things everyone should know. Hi, Kempofist, You wrote the above information. I find it to be good stuff. So you taught Kempo and now you are taking BJJ. That is good. I'd think if you taught you'd have experienced the other side of the coin (where you were asked what if and not asking). The thing that is confusing me is your sort of fickle attitude towards these arts. Both are not complete if you look at them, reason for so many folks going to others. I am not sure about others but I have a feeling you would be happier with an art that is like Kajukenbo for it has many in it that are taught. One of the real reasons it is a multiple martial art. You seem to want to isolate an art by the way it is spelled. Jiu Jitsu is an american spelling for Ju Jutsu But now it is from Brazil. Funny really. You need to quit being in the vogue and get down to basics. Many out there just pick one and stick with it for more than a few years. :bang: I like to practice many things, I do Muay Thai and FMA and all those arts that originally started with very little guys about 5'6" and under. Can I do them like they can, and leap hi in the air and return the the ground like the Hapkido guy did in that video "NO". So I do a variation of them, one that fits me, not "Benny the Jet". I am 6' 2" and weigh a petite 235.5 this morn, I had a bone density test recently, and I have shrunk 1/2 inch in the last 40 years, and have gained 60 pounds . The moral of this story is be true to yourself and practice what you want, plus....You really should have taken me up on the offer. Joe would/has invited you to his Dojo in Milford you should go there also. He has a great gym set up. You are missing some great chances to learn. Gary
Kneeing to the head is viable, but if you don't connect for whatever reason (person DOESN'T lead with their head; timing was off; you suck etc....) you are now standing with at best one foot still on the floor, and are about to be slammed. Those that choose to try risky things like kneeing someone off a shoot, are usually wrestling or Jits focused fighters themselves *cough* GOMI *cough cough* because they don't mind the worst case scenario which would be ending up on their back. Here's the vid of the fight Dan mentions in case anyone is interested [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC-qOo6zZPc"]YouTube[/ame] As for trying to group kneeing to the head with such antiquated theoretical things like elbowing the spine between the shoulder blades while being taken down, all I can say L-O-L!
You see Gary, I disagree even with your reference to them being different sides of the same coin. They are not. I do see things from the "other side of the fence", if that's what you meant. Perhaps complementary Judo and Jiu-Jitsu would be different sides of a coin, or if you mean striking and ground Boxing and Jiu-Jitsu would be different sides, but at best Kempo and BJJ are neighbors in the world of martial arts. My issues with BJJ, Boxing, Judo etc. would be that they are "not complete" as you said, and warrant cross-training. Kempo on the other hand as a whole -with the exception of the dozen or so I've heard of/come across- needs to be revamped to pertain first to reality itself before we even talk about lack of training in different ranges like the issue is with the arts mentioned. What? I'd be happier with Kaju because it has many people that are taught? And that makes it a multiple martial art? ??? I spell it that way to remove any chance for misunderstanding. It is nearly globally accepted that when spelled, "Jiu-Jitsu" one is referring to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu the art proliferated by the Gracies. It has nothing to do with being in vogue, it has to do with speaking clearly. If I said I did Jujutsu or Jujitsu to someone, that would reference a different kind of training, and would cause misunderstanding of what I'm referring to. I'll see if Joe contacts me, rather than take your word. Or maybe I'll shoot him a PM. I've already been invited to a Ninjutsu school in Jersey. Seems everyone wants to show me how they are real and not the cartoon cutouts I make their arts and styles out to be
