Clinch

Hi red dub. Welcome to MAP.

What is your experience with weapons, particularly the stick?

You say this is your theory, but what experience is that based on?

 

I don't think you have any eskrima knowledge at all.

What you describe doesn't look like any eskrima I've seen or practiced and not only that your movement lets you down.

With the bagua / Tai Chi, again your movement doesn't look like someone with 13 years experience.

Some internal Martial Art - YouTube

What exactly is your experience?

 

Greetings and welcome to MAP.

You complain about long range techniques in this video, but I don't see any. I see some spinning around for no reason, with no real striking - just holding the stick.

Why would you want to go in all close like you show in the video when the advantage of a stick is having extension? For example" Holding the stick up like you do is too close to protect your head much. And your hand position is just begging to get your fingers whacked by your opponent.

My CLF style of stick fighting looks nothing like what this video shows. The stick and cane forms I have learned in Yang Tai Chi also look nothing like this. And honestly, I don't study Escrima, but it fascinates me and I have watched many clips. And I would agree with Simon in that I never saw them do moves like you show in this clip either.

There are moves where you use the leverage of the stick to lock up and/ or disarm your opponent, but not like this. And it is brief and a small part of stick fighting. I personally don't even find most of those moves to be the ones I would try in a real situation. I would find it much more realistic to use the stick to whack the hand or arm. I am sure my Sifu could do it though.

Respectfully, I was hoping MAP was moving away from the challenging someone's experience thing. Especially if they are not claiming to be an instructor.

However, I would respectfully suggest that if that is the sort of thing your Escrima school showed you, the issue might be the school you went to and not martial arts.

I find it very odd that you join a martial arts forum to espouse why you don't study martial arts. I hope this is in good faith and an effort to find better martial arts. Because joining a place that practices something to critique it could be interpreted as trolling. (Mod Note: Which isn't allowed on MAP.) I am going to give the benefit of the doubt though.

What I am saying is focusing on clinching and talking about the stick seems odd to me. That isn't the primary purpose of using a stick as it defeats the advantages of using said stick in the first place.

Here is a clip of a seminar my Tai Sigung (founder and leader of my schools) did a couple of years ago. This will give you a bit of a flavor of what Choy Li Fut stick techniques look like.

 

The stick is actually one of my favorite weapons. It certainly is the most practical of the weapons I have learned so far. I thought I would take this opportunity to share a bit more of CLF style stick concepts. Below is one of my favorite go to for tutorials online. Sifu Kuttel supplements my training very well.

I want to add that when we do spin around, it is with the idea that we have no choice and are spun around. To then make the best of a bad situation. We are taught that we never spin unless spun. It is making the best of a bad situation. You never want to willingly turn your back to your opponent.

Note at 3:22 where he does an upward block. Note the extension! Note the hand placement and position to minimize the chance of getting your fingers whacked.

 

I have learned stick/ flute in Yang Tai Chi Chuan as well. The same basic principles that I mentioned in CLF still apply. The primary focus is still using the advantage of the extension of the weapon. I just, respectfully, would like you to expound on why the focus on clinching when that isn't the main purpose of a stick? And can you explain what "tearing" is with a stick? I am unfamiliar with that term. Some clarification, further explanation of your point would be appreciated! Thanks.

Here is some Tai Chi stick principles as I am taught. Again from Sifu Kuttel. He isn't in my direct lineage, but he is in the same School Federation lineage as my school is, as he was taught by our schools GM's son. And he ran our GM's school for years.

 

Yes they and it's known as "de-fang the snake". All styles have it.

It looks like this.



If you want snake disarms then the one and only Bob Breen has a nice take on it.

Note how he uses his hips. This is missing from your video whatever technique you are showing.



And just because I could watch him all day, more Bob Breen.

70 years old, two hip replacements and his movement is still unreal.

 

Hey Simon, Thanks for the clips. But I have a question about that third clip. I mean this respectfully, but..........

It looks like he is blocking a stick attack with his ARM before moving in with the rest of the move? Around :48 in? We have a similar concept, but we do have to move or be in close enough to block the striking ARM, not the swinging stick. Because if someone was really hitting full force, you would be getting your arm injured/ possibly broken and could not continue with the rest of that move. Can you explain this for me? Thanks!

 

No problem. It's stick first and then the arm.

Slower and in isolation Bob would zone off as well.

If I get a moment later I'll shoot a clip to explain.

 

Hannibal demonstrates this at about 0:19. The stick either hits a moment before the hand, or the hand / arm is behind the stick.

Some arts do this as it adds a reinforcement to the stick.

If you would like a further clip let me know.

 

Thanks Simon, thanks for that clip. In the clip with Hannibal, you can clearly see the stick takes the brunt of the strike first. It isn't so clear in the other clip. I had to go back and really look for it. I guess it is the angle.