If you're going to teach MA with christianity, why not teach a style with christian roots, like Ratu Adil or Prisai Sakti?
You say that you have the authority from the government, that may be all and well, but you certainly DO NOT have the authority from God to take a human life. No where in the Bible does Christ indicate that we are to kill. On this you are completely wrong. During the begining of the Iraqi conflict (to use as an example) there was talk here in Australia of introducing conscription again if worst came to worst. There is not a chance in hell that I would agree to go fight in Iraq. If I was to be arrested and thrown in jail, so be it, but I will never put myself in a position which may require me to kill another human being, no matter if they hated me. These question are pretty easy to explain. "Who is right and who is wrong?" Always difficult to answer. As to the Muselim situation I beleive that parties on both sides were wrong in their actions. As Christians we take the Bible (in particular the New Testiment, with the old testiment as the history preceeding the new) as authority on what is right and wrong, and use the example of Jesus Christ (who was God) as a model for our lives. "Who are Gods people?", Gods People are Christians (Followers of Christ). No it is not right for the Israelies to kill Palestinians for God commanded "Thou Shalt Not Kill". "Are Americans right to kill Muslims?", certainly not again because of the previous law. But consider this, for the last 2000+ years Christians (Followers of Christ) have been persecuted by pretty much everyone, mostly by the Jews. I am not anti Jewish but it is a fact that Christians have been and still are one of hte most persecuted people on the planet. We have even been persecutred by each other for crying out loud (Catholic vs Non-Catholic). During the first and second world wars many God fearing Christians took up guns to fight the Axis Powers (. These wars were justified (from the view point of the Defenders) in that the Axia powers were trying to conquere Europe and it was in defence of their contries. The Iraq war (again as an example, P.S. I dont like the American Government) is completely different as it is the narrow mindedness of the American Government (particularly George Bush) who wish to force Democracy and their way of life on other people, remembering that the American Govt went against the UN (which was set up by people who had survived 2 world wars) and Invaded Iraq under the pretence that they had WMA's. But I digress. Yes I also beleive that Han Moos logic is flawed. Nice point. Exactly the sort of attitude that brought about the Crusades and the oppression of other people groups (American Indians, Indians, Australian Aboriginies, etc) by church groups. In each case it is Governments, Kings, People in power etc that use Christianity as an excuse (they are doing Gods work, or God wills it) just as terrorists use the Islamic religion as an excuse. To me this is totally wrong and shows a complete lack of understanding of what Christs purpose was. It certainly wasn't to have Christians (or those who claim to be) spread the faith via conflict and conquering nations. Very true. Unfortunately the rest of the world take the American Gov attitude as an example of a Christian society, which in my opinion is a very bad idea, even my own Gov cant seem to get it into their heads that they cannot just dictate to the rest of the world how to live. Unfortunately it is an anti Christian thing. The eastern Gov would probably allow Islam to enter their countries as opposed to Christianity. And the Catholics weren't anti Non-Christian they were very much Anti Non-Catholic which included other independent Christian churches. Well done, this is the first time you have quoted the Bible correctly. And yes I agree with you on this point. Jesus is quite justified in his coming to make war as this world was created through him, he owns us and therefore we are accountable to him alone, we rebelled against God, and therefore must pay the price (Physical and Spiritual Death). That is why he calls us to repent and come back to following him (GOD). All other wars, with mabey the exceptions of WW1 & WW2 (again from the defenders point of view), are not justifyable under any law or religion. As to Pharoes army in Exodus. God was taking his people, then the Israelites (not the Jews or Israel Country of today) out of Egypt and oppression. And again this is Gods earth and we are accountable to him. He can do with us as he wishes, and in this case he was more that justified. I will say it again, there is no human justification on this planet for men to kill each other. You obviously havent researched the meaning of this book have you. Suggestion, talk to someone like the pastor of a local church as to its meaning. In the meantime refrain from refering to the Bible as an acid trip. I disagree. Taekwondo and its moral teachings have a definate Eastern grounding to them. Look up Eastern Pantheistic Monism, which is the underlying world view of all Eastern faiths and religions. Never heard of them. Me thinks some research is in order. The overlying trouble with the Western world today is that Christianity is often used as an excuse by people to achieve a self centred purpose, which goes against the teaching that Christians are to be servants for God and spread the faith. Add to this that many in Martial arts and the western culture do not properly understand the Christian stance on violence, fighting etc. Again I emplore people to do some PROPER research (Read the Bible and ask other Christians questions) before making generalised statements. Wow now my fingers hurt.
I'm sorry, but this is complete and utter nonsense. Again, but this is complete and utter nonsense - apart from the last bit about Christians persecuting each other.
let's not get too much off topic. if you want to discuss religion, go to the religion forum. this is the TKD forum after all.
Exactly. Christians persecuted Jews way more than the other way around. Also, Christians have been the ones in power since Constantine.
You've obviously never been on an acid trip. The bible is written by humans, translated from Hebrew by humans and interpreted by humans. Even if one of the three humans involved in translating the word of god is off a bit, the word of god has been diluted. Take that and remove the context of the times in which the original item came about and you're pretty much shooting in the dark. My opinion. Take it or leave it, but please refrain from telling me how to refer to the bible.
The only non-Catholics back then were the Orthodox Christians and they got on with the Catholics just fine. They even talked the pope into encouraging crusades against Islam (because they were losing their empire to Turks), if my history is correct.
Well strictly-speaking, Orthodox Christians ARE Catholic - but people tend to use the word 'Catholic' just to mean the Roman Catholic church. Actually, I don't think that the Eastern and Western Churches got on very well at all. I think there was serious rivalry between them. Since both by definition are 'catholic' then by their very nature they claim to be the one 'true' church. The Eastern church only turned to the Western church out of desperation when it looked like they would be overwhelmed by the Turks. But the crusaders sent by the Pope ended up sacking Constantinople and thereby hastened the downfall of the Byzantine Empire.
have to admit, id like to spar with one of these christian TKD artists. if i strike them on their left cheek would they offer their right one?
okay then. it still smells like a crock to me. just prostituting TKD to make this church look "cool" and "hip" for the kids. iv always been taught MA to be kept seperate from religion - meditations/bowing/etc being respect and self development. but replacing meditation with prayer seems close enough to be allowable. as long as the art itself is not diluted for this (palms together, fingers pointing up to replace Moa Jumbi Sogi A for example). and im avoiding all other racism/acceptance in this discussion like the plague though
Oh dear, is all I have to say. I guess that the church are pretty desperate to get the youth involved so that it doesn't dissapear into history. Personaly I don't beilive in God and the Bible does contradict itself, I won't go into it as this is about TKD. To me TKD is getting more popular and its like a trend now to do a MA, the poltics behind TKD are heart breaking. It may be that the kids of the parents that go to the church may have pestered the church to start a class. Meditation is all about spirit, simlar to most relgions so there is no harm being done, assuming they were not brainwashed into it. Tans
