Chinese kempo forms versus American Kempo forms

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by K3MP0, Jul 28, 2007.

  1. K3MP0

    K3MP0 New Member

    I've read that there are lots of arts called kempo so there are lots of differences. All seem to ultimately have come from China but also have Okinawan, Japanese or Hawaiian influences at some point in their histories. And many moden influences too

    My sifu is more on the Chinese side. :Alien:

    What are the common differences between lineages when it comes to forms?
  2. Kenpo_Iz_Active

    Kenpo_Iz_Active Greek Warrior-not 300

    i don't think there is even that much difference between them. But Kenpo was mainly Okinawan and was influenced by Hawaiian Kenpo, and various CMA.
  3. K3MP0

    K3MP0 New Member

    I'm throwing something out there with this, but to me this Kempo form looks more Okinawan influence, like a Karate kata with a kempo feel [ame=""]N.S. kenpo 6 kata - YouTube[/ame]

    And this kempo kata from another lineage looks more Kung Fu [ame=""]Kenpo Karate Tiger Kata - YouTube[/ame]
  4. Almost A Ghost

    Almost A Ghost Valued Member

    The top form is Kata #6 from the Shaolin Kempo system. Definitely my least favorite and a rather poor example of forms of the system. I use to refer to it as the "thrown together" form.

    Here's "Circle of the Tiger" from Cerio Kenpo/Shaolin Kempo.
  5. K3MP0

    K3MP0 New Member

    Do you think that form is more Kung Fu or Karate in feel?

    I liked how they demonstrated some applications of the form afterwards. :woo:
  6. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train..., the first one is Kata 6. It comes from George Pesare. I don't like it much, but it's at least Kempo. The second link is the Tiger Crane form from Hung Gar...not a Kenpo form at all. Here is what is supposed to look like

    [ame=""]Tiger and Crane form - YouTube[/ame]
  7. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    It's Karate. Professor Cerio does the same applications in the tape that it's on...I think I remember it being on either the Advanced Cerio Bo tape or the Advanced Kenpo Hands tape. It's good to know what's going on in the form...
  8. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I'm personally not buying the fact that there is any legitimate link between TCMA and Ke?po.
  9. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    Never said there was...
  10. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Was responding more to the OP :D

    You seem to have a pretty good grasp on WTF is going on Gufball!
  11. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    In American Ke?po there is no MSG.
  12. K3MP0

    K3MP0 New Member

    So if a kempo style includes Tiger and Crane form it stops being kempo? All kempo forms are either inherited, borrowed or made up, or a mix.

    These are the Kempo styles I've heard of American Kempo, Bok Fu, Shou Shu, Tracy Kempo, White Tiger Kempo, Kajukenbo, Shorinji Kempo, Villaris Kempo, Shaolin Kempo Karate. I am sure there are more.
  13. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    And this is unlike other arts that have forms in what way?

    EPAK, Bok Fu, Tracy all come from the same line - Mitose to Chow to Parker
    Kaju is Mitose to Chow to Emperado
    Shaolin, Villaris, White Tiger, Cerio are Emperado to Gascon to someone Pesare to someone else
    Shorinji is I think the only Okinwanan Kenpo on your list unless you are meaning a different one than what I am thinking
    Hawaiian Kempo and Universal Kempo are Emperado to Godin to either Hackleman or Buell repsectively
    Kosho Ryu Kenpo is Mitose to someone else
    Kosho Ryu Kenpo is also Emperado to Halbuna to Tomas Mitose
    Kara Ho Kenpo is Chow

    I am sure there is about a billion subsets in there, but those are the major deviations. Break them down into 3 groups:

    Mitose - looks more like Shotokan
    Chow - looks more like what you think of as EPAK
    Emperado - varies depending on when the person studied. Earlier = more Karate + Judu. Later = More Chinese
  14. Satori81

    Satori81 Never Forget... might want to ask Pacific Shore or DianHsuhe about that...
  15. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    I will clarify. Kara Ho is consistent with the flow that early Kaju and Kosho Ryu do not have.

    How's that?
  16. K3MP0

    K3MP0 New Member

    How do the Okinawan Kenpo styles fit into this?
  17. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    China-Okinowa-Usa :)
  18. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    Hmmm... take a look at the traditional style of Karate. If you look at the lineages, then you have Mitose somehow getting some Okinawan Kenpo. Some believe this to be closer to Motobu. Funakoshi and Motobu were contemporaries, but Funakoshi was more accepted in Japan because he spoke the language better. His version of Okinawan Kenpo becomes Shotokan Karate. Which is then spread to Korea - note the similarities of TKD forms.

    So many of the Okinawan Kenpo styles look more like Shotokan than they do EPAK.
  19. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    LOL...not all the time. Sometimes I'm sleepy when I post... :cool:
  20. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    I'm saying it's not a Kempo form, therefore it isn't Kempo. it's just incorporated into the style. It's a Hung Gar form. Call it what it is...the Tiger Crane set from Hung Gar...not from Tracy's Kempo. I'm not saying that it can't exist in a Kempo system...I'm saying it's not Kempo, nor is it a fair representation of what Kempo is. BTW, it's Villari's Kempo, not Villaris. I'm tired of seeing people type Villaris instead of Villari.

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