Chinese herbs, do they really work?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by slide, Jul 27, 2009.

  1. Anorhyme

    Anorhyme Banned Banned

    Here is a link to a story talking about how big business hides and represses science that proves that using cell phones causes cancer.

    "there are multiple reports, mostly out of Europe's premier research institutions, of cell-phone and PDA use being linked to "brain aging," brain damage, early-onset Alz­heimer's, senility, DNA damage, and even sperm die-offs (many men, after all, keep their cell phones in their pants pockets or attached at the hip)."

    If big business will hide and repress science that proves cell phones cause cancer, they will hide and repress research that shows alternative medicine works.

    Stop being so trusting of authority. Their main goal is to control you and take your money.
  2. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    I really hope that Anorhyme is simply someone doing a parody of an extremist alternative medicine advocate because if it is a real person then he/she has to be one of the most unconvincing advocates for alternative medicine I have ever seen!

    Genuine medical controversies are not hard to find and yet the one Anorhyme chose to present is a completely bogus example from a men's magazine!

    Hats off...

    Now putting my mod hat on.

    Anorhyme you have repeatedly made personal attacks in your posts since you arrived on the site, if you continue to post them you will receive a ban.

    EDIT: I've edited out your most recent efforts. This forum is fine with heated debate just not with childish insults and name calling. If you can't discuss things without resorting to name calling then this site isn't for you.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  3. Topher

    Topher allo!


    Your claim/suggestion was that scientists are not to be trusted because they engage in fraud, manipulation or bribery.

    What you cite above is not that the scientific method is inherently flawed and therefore not to be trusted, but rather big business tries to subvert or distort it as it would have a negative impact on their interests. This is quite different to your original claim. No one is suggesting that some businesses will not attempt to deny the science, rather the issue is how reliable the scientific method is, and therefore by extension, the conclusions it produces. The answer is that the scientific method is the best, most objective method we have to determine what is true, what is false, what actually works and what doesn't work. Moreover, the open nature of the scientific method means it is self correcting, so any fraud or manipulation will be discovered. If someone manipulates their data then it will eventually stand out as inconsistent.

    As for the suggestion that big business is behind all the negative studies on alternative medicine, this is just absurd and is verging on conspiracy! I would not claim that this never happens, but the scientific research is so diverse, carried out by so many people, in so many countries, over such a long time, and under so much scrutiny, that it is more likely that their conclusions (e.g. that alternative medicine has not been shown to work) are correct than that "big business" is on a cover-up mission.

    As for me being so trusting of authority... think again! I'm basing my views on the lack of evidence to support alternative medicine (which if you remember, is itself evidence not to believe), the lack of any plausibility or mechanism, and the fact that there are far better explanations (e.g. cognitive bias, placebo, etc). None of this relies on authority. It instead derives from the inability of proponents of alternative medicine to validate their claims, as well as some basic logic.
  4. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

  5. Topher

    Topher allo!

    I was being charitable. Your right... he's knee deep!
  6. Anorhyme

    Anorhyme Banned Banned

    That was easy. All Plum had to do was say the word "ban" and here you are saying the word "ban".

    You seem easily suggestible.

    You know your actions will encourage Plum to think that crying is a valid strategy for adult interactions don't you? Since you reacted to his suggestion this time, Plum is going to think he is the man that can walk around the forums pointing at people to get banned and waiting for suggestible admins to act on his suggestions.

    Don't you think it is time Plum grew up? He is supposed to be a kung fu man and he is crying because he encountered a different opinion.

    What would happen if I punched Plum in the face? I think he would start crying from his reactions here. If he wants to be a martial artist he needs to learn to take a punch and still stand tall.

    I also think you should be honest. You were upset by my response to you. You never responded back. I think "protecting Plum and others from my name calling" is just an excuse for you to get even.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  7. Anorhyme

    Anorhyme Banned Banned

    All of those people that you trusting people refuse to doubt? They make mistakes all of the time.

    "A mother successfully diagnosed her daughter’s brain tumour after accusing doctors of dismissing the child’s illness as “attention seeking”.

    She said she did not blame anyone for missing the tumour, but said there was a “lack of awareness of this condition and childhood cancers as a whole, and that is down to a lack of Government funding.”

    She added: “A doctor may go his whole career without seeing this condition. The awareness is so low and that is the issue here.

    "Our daughter is the most important things in our life and we are her only advocates. Some people may have been happy to accept the word of a doctor but I knew something was wrong."

    Why do you people trust authority figures in suits so much? They make mistakes every single day.
  8. Anorhyme

    Anorhyme Banned Banned

    Sorry Topher. I cry when I hear sad things I don't like. CKava said not to cry so I cannot respond to you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2010
  9. Anorhyme

    Anorhyme Banned Banned

    I did not realize that MAP forum members were such delicate flowers.

    I will change my languge from language suitable for grade school to language for a kung fu school full of men.

    Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2010
  10. Anorhyme

    Anorhyme Banned Banned

    Hello PASmith. I cry when I listen to alternative songs. The admins told me not to cry so I cannot respond to what you have said.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2010
  11. Anorhyme

    Anorhyme Banned Banned

    You really are intolerant. I joined on Jan 30th. That was 7 days ago.

    I just looked. I posted in 4 threads that I could find. That is it. I have been here 7 days, posted in 4 threads, and I am such a threat to the entire map community I need to be threatened.

    I was here years ago and got bored and left. This place seemed alive and jumping back then. Where is everyone now? The place seems dead.

    I am guessing the intolerance of the people running the site has chased everyone away. People do not want someone hovering over them telling them what to believe or what they can say.

    Where did all of those people go? They just give up on martial arts?
  12. Topher

    Topher allo!

    And ad hominems are a valid strategy for adult interactions?

    This is confirmation bias. Parents will often believe something is wrong with their child.

    Sometimes there isn't nothing wrong with them.

    Sometimes there is something wrong with them and the doctor identifies it.

    And sometimes there is something wrong with them and the doctor fails to identify it.

    The fact the latter happens does not render doctors useless nor does it mean evidence-based medicine is to be distrusted, all it means is that identifying illness and disease is not black and white.

    If we're basing are opinions on track records, evience-based medicine has a far better success record than any alternative 'medicine'.

    P.S. where as that quote from.

    It's about evidence, not authority. Do you have some kind of reading comprehension problem? This has been pointed out to you several times now.

    Since you mention authorities... the fact they can and do make mistakes does not mean everything an authority says is to be distrusted. If you wish to maintain the notion that mistakes mean it doesn't work or must be distrusted then I can easily point you to examples of alternative medicine practitioners getting it wrong. Why do YOU trust alternative medicine so much when its practitioners make mistakes every single day?


    If you knew anything about me on this site you'd realise that I have no problem engaging with views that I do not agree with.

    CKava said that if you cannot express your arguments in an adult way then you're clearly incapable of engaging in a mature discussion, and he's right. If you cannot make a point without, as you put it, "making people cry," then you are effectively admitting to your own immaturity, and yet here you are on MAP pontificating about how great and clever you are. :rolleyes:
  13. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Or for sympathetic magic.

    "I just looked. I posted in 4 threads that I could find. That is it. I have been here 7 days, posted in 4 threads, and I am such a threat to the entire map community I need to be threatened."

    You're not a threat, you're just similar to a fly buzzing in front of one's eyes. An annoyance.

    But congratulations, you've gotten people to engage in extended dialogue with you in their vain attempt to have some sort of meaningful and rational discussion.

    Just wondering,do you have any background in any of the things you discuss here on MAP, such as TCM or CMAs? If so, could you tell us what and from what lines of teaching,and how long?A ballpark'll do.(Of course you may not wish to tell because then everyone here will want to bother your teachers,right?)

    "Cause so far, you give no reason to believe you have any.

    Thread should be locked as it's just another feeding site for the one who lives under the bridge.
  14. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Ya, it's looking pretty bad. That might happen indeed.
  15. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Anorhyme clearly did not quite get the concept of not making personal insults and since he is clearly not interested in changing his behaviour or contributing anything but obnoxious arguments to the site...

    Dear residents of the shire I am left to report that Hobbiton has now reduced it's troll population by one.
  16. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Oh and just to provide some answers to your questions...

    1. You are not 'a threat to the entire map community' you are just the internet equivalent of a 6 year old kid who keeps running up to people shouting in their faces then putting his fingers in his ears while making fart noises. You have no interest in the community and seem incapable of engaging in productive discussion without calling people names. Which makes you what we in the business call... a troll.
    2. MAP is quieter than usual because the site went down recently for about a week and we are still restoring all the old functions.
    3. In my time as a mod I have banned a grand total of 3 people. That's over roughly 2/3 years and despite the fact that I mainly mod the Ninjutsu section. If I was banning people for disagreeing with me or disliking me my ban figure would be of the charts.
    4. No mod here cares what you believe all they care about is if you break the rules or if your only goal is to cause arguments and insult people. Since you both break the rules and are clearly only here to cause arguments and insult people you enjoy the status of a seasoned troll.

    Enjoy lecturing the rest of the interweb and good night.
  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Oh we'll never know how ingesting a tiger's willy can make us better in the sack.
  18. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Refer to Frazier's "The Golden Bough",abridged edition.

    Unless you feel like reading 14 volumes or so.:)
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

  20. Rhizome

    Rhizome Super Valued Member

    they are abit unregulated and tend to be the chinese manufacturers that have analogues of cialis in their libido pills and so on, some regulation is def needed.

    but unknown not really most of the mainstream herbs have a decent bit of testing behind them.

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