We ask for evidence to back up claims of an invisible phenomenon and we're called forum bullies. Does that make you the forum wet-**** then?
@ VZ bully! In your haste to contradict and silence anyone that does not fit with your narrowed views, you missed or chose to ignore previous posts: I have not claimed anything related to chi, I have expressed curiosity and a desire to understand beyond fantasy and/or ignorance; I have formulated some hypothesis, mostly to give a direction and a road to explore... Sorry, my bad! To a loud minority, it seems that reasonable discussions about Chi must be killed before they get out of its control; I can only wonder why this is so important... Osu!
Blah, blah, blah Yeah we get it we are big and nasty because we don't believe every whack-job that tells us they were healed by Peter Popoff and now live on prana Here's another pretty picture for you assuming you haven't thrown your teddy out of the pram and left
It was not ignored it was irrelevant' People using your "logic" allow parasites like Peter Popoff to exist...or am I a big bully for not believig eh heals through the power of god? How about psychic surgeons? Or any other amount of hocus pocus...shoudl we accept it at face value or should we demand proof? "Hey it doesn't matter if people get fleeced as long as we keep an open mind!"
osu, Hummmm, I have very little interest in this Peter Popoff and his cohorts; I had not even heard of the guy before you mentioned it. I have little interest in people getting fleeced, it happens all the time! so what? it is not my purpose to prevent it; maybe it is yours? What mission you assigned yourself is none of my business! I tried very hard to present possibilities and options, ask questions in the most reasonable manner possible, and place the debate on a non threatening plane; I feel I am being robbed of an intelligent debate by a very small minority of loud bullies that don't know better than anyone else but have decided to keep everyone at their level under the guise and excuse of saving gullible morons a buck or two! I understand that your personal belief is that you are acting for the greater good... IMHO, you guys are deluding yourself, and painted yourselves bullies, ignorant, intolerant and disrespectful. Osu!
I'll live with it I have said many times that you are assuming FAR too much about me - I have beliefs that many would question, but my beliefs do not require external validation because i am not offering them to anyone or obtaining any pecuniary advantage You are not being robbed of anything - if you cannot broke rational objections and requests for proof of your argument then you are not looking for debate your are circle jerking and looking for like minded individuals. I also like the way that when we ask for a justification of a position we are bullies and disrespectful yet when one of the chi gung advocates calls Van Zandt a liar you do not even mention it Way to display consistency in your morals Fred If me asking for proof of an extraordinary claim makes me rude then so be it - I would rather be rude than deluded
Nice riposte - with debating skills like that it is perhaps better we do not continue the discussion as watching you go "ner ner ner ner ner" with your fingers in your ears will get tiresome.
Osu, LOL - you win, derailing this thread and silencing people that do not conform to your ideas was the primary objective anyway! I completely surrender to your omnipotence and that of your accomplices! Osu!
Whatever helps you sleep at night princess - if you want to believe you have a moral highground rather than the fact you are a hypocritical self-righteous ass then go for it
Congratulations. You described the central nervous system in some detail. But you did nothing to strengthen the argument for practices such as Qigong, acupuncture or herbology that claim to improve health and longevity through the manipulation and control of one's so-called Chi. Traditional Chinese medicine asserts that the body has natural patterns of Chi that circulate in channels called meridians. But there is no physically verifiable anatomical or histological basis for the existence of these so-called meridians. Just like there is no convincing evidence to support the use of other Chi manipulation techniques such as acupuncture, tui na, moxibustion or crystal healing. And as for your Chi manipulation exercise at the end of your post - demonstrating an increased awareness of something, in this case a body extremity, by looking at it? Wow. Well done. Thread not won.
But to be fair he is saying what I have been saying all along - it is affinity for body feel and mechanics and nothing more
Problem is, the definition of Chi tends to go beyond simple kinaesthetics and biomechanics. It's often described (by supporters of practices such as Qigong, acupuncture and so on) as the flow of energy through and around the body, as well as in other non-biological structures (which leads us to things like feng shui). Ask most Qigong or Tai Chi practitioners for their definition of Chi and they'll probably offer something resembling The Force from Star Wars rather than the central nervous system as old palden described it.
Oh most definitely they will! Which is why Old Palden suprised me with his definition because it excludes ANY claptrap
But that the main problem. Chi was an ancient description of some functions of the body when it could not be explained. Now these can be explained. People tend to be steadfast on the ancient view because it is intriguing. It is like telling someone that Santa Claus doesn’t exist. Instead of them saying Santa doesn’t exist, they cling onto the possibly that Santa “did exist”. Instead of saying to prove how Santa existed, they regurgitate the same positions that were fed to them. Trying to tell Chi believers that Chi cannot be proven is like telling religious zealots that God doesn’t exist. You are not going to change their minds. I was like them, but I have long since, changed my view.
