Changing grip mid-fight

Discussion in 'Judo' started by Archibald, May 30, 2014.

  1. Archibald

    Archibald A little koala

    Hi folks!

    So I'm a few months into Judo by now, and one thing I've noticed is that whenever I try to swap grips mid fight, for whatever reason, I'm punished almost instantly for it - either by getting thrown or by being denied another grip.

    Is this because I'm new and still relatively rubbish or have I accidentally discovered a golden rule of Judo?
     
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You have just found out that when your opponent has 2 grips on you, and you only has 1 grip on him (because you try to change grip), you already lose your "grip fight" and you will have more than 50% chance to be thrown. Old saying said, "It's OK to be thrown but it's not OK to lose in grip fight".

    Why do you want to give up your grip that you fight so hard for it? If you have to change your grip, you have to force your opponent to give up his grip at the same time. You will need a strategy to do so.

    You should also follow the following rules:

    1. Try to get 1 grip while your opponent has no drip.
    2. Try to get 2 grips while your opponent only has 1 grip.
    3. If you have 2 grips and your opponent also has 2 grips, Break your opponent's grips one after another, and start all over again.
    4. Try to spend 80% of your effort not to let your opponent to have any grip on you.

    Here is an example that

    - he breaks his opponent's 1st grip,
    - he then breaks his opponent's 2nd grip.
    - When his opponent has no grip on him but he has 1 grip on his opponent, he attacks and obtains his 2nd contact point on his way in.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdkJcru1Fk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obdkJcru1Fk[/ame]
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  3. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I don't do judo, but how about "if you want to change grips, first break your opponents grip, then re-grip.
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Its because you need to learn how to grip fight, try out a few different stratagies and ask your partner why your getting thrown.
    Grip fightings is the heart of competative judo but its not always openly taught.

    One thing I would say is dont be too concerned about grip strips at ffirst, just get in there and surf the clinch as much as you can.
     
  5. benkei

    benkei Valued Member

    You got it one with your first guess - you're new and "relatively rubbish". Seriously, most beginners never even think to change grips whilst fighting, so the fact that you're doing it is great. Grip fighting takes a long time to get good at, and it isn't until you have a few favourite throws that you'll really start to work out how to use your gripping.

    Keep doing what you're doing and trying new things. You're going to get thrown, and that's great, it means you're learning.

    YKW maybe he has a terrible grip that he needs to change? There's no point keeping a bad grip even if you have both hands on. Better to have one hand trying to get a better grip than just settling for a poor grip with two hands.
     
  6. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Do you know how to break a grip hold?

    - sleeve hold?
    - lapel hold?
    - upper collar hold?
    - under elbow hold?
    - cross lapel hold (illegal grip in Judo?)?
    - front belt hold (illegal grip in Judo?)?
    - ...

    Do you start your "grip fight" from your opponent's wrist area, or do you just jump right into your opponent's elbow area, even lapel area?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2014
  7. Archibald

    Archibald A little koala

    Hey everyone!

    For some reason I wasn't getting any e-mail notifications about replies to this thread, and I totally forgot about it! Thanks for all the replies and apologies for not getting back sooner.

    I asked my instructors and I basically got told the same, that is "just take your basic sleeve and lapel grip and work from there for the time being".

    I've also gotten some good advice from my partners about some basic things like protecting your neck with your grip and other nuggets like that. I've also played with a few grip breaks from my JJJ days, some of which works nicely after some adaptation and a lot of which has turned out to be complete rubbish.

    Working from the wrist down is something I've noticed people do a lot, whereas I just jump in for the lapels so maybe that's something I'll look at down the track.

    I'm still really enjoying the training and the learning process. Thanks again for the responses dudes!
     
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Your instructor may think it's too early for you to worry about the grip fight. To develop your bread and butter throws are more important than to develop your grip fighting skill in the beginner level training.

    The basic principle is when your opponent grabs you, you should try to "make him to feel uncomfortable".
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  9. Wooden Hare

    Wooden Hare Banned Banned

    From my basic judo and jujutsu experiences, a good partner is just waiting to feel you try to change your grip, and punish you for it, like you said.

    A poor grip change is like telegraphing a punch, it's one of the things that a good opponent is just waiting for you to do so they can attack or disarm.

    Since it's judo I would recommend what benkei said, it's a process of learning by feeling.

    Getting thrown in Judo is some of the best behavioral conditioning on planet Earth. You will learn what not to do naturally.

    This is why you learn ukemi before grips fighting.
     
  10. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    A "poor" grip change is bad. But a "good" grip change is a very aggressive strategy.

    - Your opponent has 2 grips on you.
    - You use right hand to grab his right lapel,
    - push your right arm forward on his right shoulder (this move is called "push punch"),
    - pull your left shoulder back (this move is called "tearing"), and break his right grip.
    - you then use your left hand to replace your right grip,
    - push your left arm on his right shoulder,
    - pull your right shoulder back, and break his left grip.
    - Now you have one grip on him, but he has no grip on you.
    - You start to drag him in circle.
    - Since he has no grip on you, when he tries to get grip on you, you attack and try to obtain your 2nd contact point on your way in.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
  11. benkei

    benkei Valued Member

    Agree with your above thoughts and strategy YKW, that's a classic technique right there. For the OP though, it's really just an exercise in theory at this point in his training. This is the sort of stuff you should be looking at after a few years in judo, not after a few months. A few months in and a judoka doesn't even really have a sense of their own balance yet - there are a host of other things to gain proficiency in before looking at grip fighting. The other problem is, if you start focusing on grip fighting too early in judo, all of your randori turns into grip fighting. Seriously, in the lead up to competitions I've ended up grip fighting in randori for minutes before the first throw was even attempted by me or my partner. For a junior who needs to be throwing and getting thrown, that's not a good thing.
     

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