Changing from Point to Olympic Sparring

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by kwang gae, Jun 10, 2007.

  1. kwang gae

    kwang gae 광개 Sidekick Specialist

    My school is moving back to AAU from USSSA, which means we'll stop doing continuous point and go to stop action which I consider a step backwards. To me speaking solely for myself, stop action point is like tag, where as continuous point is more realistic. In stop action it becomes a quick draw competition, and in continuous you employ counters and use of multiple techniques in attacking.

    Anyway, I don't want to go back to training in stop action, so I'm considering moving over to Olympic, which while it is a major change to go from lead leg point fighting to rear leg Olympic, but at least it's a continuous 2 minute round.

    So, any suggestions? Should I just suck it up and keep training in point since I'm much too pretty to get a busted nose in Olympic? Or should I just ST-frak-U and go to Olympic, it'll be good for me to try something new?

    Or should I just bag it all and study BJJ? - just kidding. There is a Shaolin KF school open near me now, and I have been intrigued? Should I maybe take a break from my years and years of TKD? Hmmmm.

    I'd love to read your thoughts. (Or perhaps not? :D )
  2. Counter

    Counter Train more. Train harder.

    I can be very brief about it.. If you feel like continuous sparring is better for you since you can work your combo's and counters into it, I would give it a go. Your pretty face will probably stay mostly untouched, the injuries in WTF sparring (and most of the other organizations) are not all that bad..

    Good luck making your choice!
  3. wmks shogun

    wmks shogun Valued Member

    Now, I am not a huge fan of stop point sparring, but it can also employ counters and multiple techniques, it just depends on which one actually makes a significant amount of contact first. Personally, I am not a fan of how little many Olympic stylists seem to use their hands and I definitely am not a fan of the no hand attacks to the head rule. But, again, much like TKDAddict said, good luck and I personally say go for it and at least give it a shot. What do you have to lose?
  4. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    I'm no fan of Olmpic rules in many ways, but the fights you see from the Olympics aren't necessarily how you'll train in a club.

    Hopefully Liam Cullen and some others will post up, but I get the impression they spar hands up and with more hand techniques.

    They also have the distinct advantage of sparring with heavier contact.

    Ultimately it depends what you mean by "more realistic" and what you want from your sparring. I'm increasingly training competition sparring as one thing, but introducing more SD based sparring as a separate entity.

    If only I could get everyone to train 87 times a week we could fit it all in :D

  5. Kaizen-th3

    Kaizen-th3 Valued Member

    You will notice there is a totally different strategy since they don't stop.

    Be aware of tempo and controlling the fight. Plus the lack of use of hands for offense...which is very annoying :(

    Also being willing to take a hit to deliever a bigger hit to them really plays in here as well.

    It really isn't that big of a transition though, you should get used to it rather quickly.

    edit: Oh and I've seen more busted up faces in point sparring hands down. Its the whole gettin punched in the face...Olympic has more contact, but just keep your hands up
  6. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    This will depend very much on the club, but I'd say that is certainly my experience. At the club with which I've trained the most, keeping your hands up is a must, not just while sparring but during any kind of drill of exercise. My usual fighting stance is different to those the more side on style you'd see in an Olympic rules match also, to the point where I don't have to adjust it when I train at my MMA club.

    That being said, I'm not the world’s best Olympic style fighter. I've scrapped a couple of bronze at national level before but that's the closest I'm ever going to get, because the guys that train at sport TKD clubs are pretty much always the guys that win at sport TKD. Which leads me on to the question of what do you actually want out of switching clubs?

    If you're looking for competition experience then I'd urge you to find a club that is all about the sport. Their patterns may be tacked on, their handwork may be next to nothing, their self defence might be nothing more than a couple of wrist locks; but chances are they'll kick your **** up and down the dojang all day because it's what they know.

    You calling me fat? ;)
  7. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    We're the Miami Vice of TKD Liam; I'm so old I'm permenantly Crocked and you're Tubs ;) :D

  8. narcsarge

    narcsarge Masticated Whey

    If I have read Kwang's post right Liam, which is asking a lot, I believe his school is changing organizations. Not that Kwang is changing schools.

    Kwang, at your rank and age I say, just give it a shot. Always something to be learned and you can broaden your horizons. It may not be something you like right now but you may still learn something new.

    The thought of you trying KF sounds good too. I really wish more MA'ists would try other arts so they can take what they believe are good techniques and incorporate them into their own arsenal. I know that sounds rather "Bruce Lee" of me but I truly believe he was on the right track. I may never be able to do a spinning hook kick to the head. Or jump over 20 guys and do a side kick, but I sure as hell can deliver on hell of side kick and throw people to the ground. Not really TKD essentials these moves but I won't part with them.

    Never stop learning Kwang. Never be afraid to try something new. You will only be the wiser for having made the attempt.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2007
  9. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    I believe the problem is his school currently spars continuous, but will soon be changing to 'stop action'. He's unsure if he should also change to stop action, or find another continuous club, or even more to Olympic rules.

    As for training in something different, it can indeed be a very good thing to do. Personally if you're going to do that I'd suggest finding something different enough to your current art, but not so different that it nulls out what you've already spent time learning. Something like BJJ would be good as it's gives you something for the ground while you can still use TKD for strikes.

    It really depends on what kwang gae wants to get out of his training.
  10. Liam Cullen

    Liam Cullen Valued Member

    Bitch ;)
  11. kwang gae

    kwang gae 광개 Sidekick Specialist

    Wow, thank you all for your comments -- insightful, well thought out and reasoned all.

    You've given me even more to think about!

    The problem here is Narc, that I have done it before. I started out in stop action point and did it for 3 or 4 years at the beginning of my TKD experience. When we moved to continuous it was like "wow - this is what sparring is really supposed to be like".
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2007
  12. neryo_tkd

    neryo_tkd Valued Member

    definitely not. if you don't like point, then simply don't do it, if you have the opportunity to train continuous somewhere
  13. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Why do you think the tournament rules that you compete under determines the sparring you have to practice in class?

    Almost everyone I've seen practices continous point in class (whether or not they compete stop point at a tournament). Similarly the level of contact is usually determined by the training partners. There are people that I've trained with for years where if it doesn't ellicit a wince of pain then it isn't a point. :D

    Although as I get older there is less and less of this macho attitude and more injury prevention. :D

    My point is that changes in tournament rules should not effect the way you change with your partners on a daily basis.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2007
  14. kwang gae

    kwang gae 광개 Sidekick Specialist

    Yeah that's what I was hoping for, but the reality hit me in the face like a mackerel Saturday morning. Our head instructor wants us to acknowledge scores from our partner by backing off for a second.

    This totally frustrates me, because if someone scores on me, I want to score 2x back on them. Instead now, I'm supposed to essentially bow and start over. :( Even the lightest of contact is supposed to be a point he says. And while I generally go very light with head shots, because I don't want to hurt anybody, I like to bang a bit and appreciate getting a good rap back.

    What's worse is that I'm supposed to teach this nonsense, but I think that's just not going to happen. I think it's time I turned in my keys because my heart is not in it. :(
  15. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    I'll be interested to know what happens. I know that at our organization I'd be on my hands and knees begging you to stay. I NEED guys my age to work out with! Ha ha...

    I do agree, however, if someone is just surging ahead and not acknowledging that someone kicked them (taking advantage of the light contact) they usually need to be talked to. I once had a student who would not back down until he had his opponent backed against the wall. No matter how many times I told him he'd always back people against the wall. I forced him to stay after and knocked the wind out of him a kick while we were sparring.

    I remember saying, "Look. I just wanted you to see that you can't just wade in like that as if nothing phases you."

    Never saw him again. Still ****es me off. I was trying to teach him something and instead of learning he just never comes back.
  16. mkiv

    mkiv Valued Member

    AAU doesn't have continous sparring in your area? i know they have a Olympic style national team and i have competed at there qualifiers and at there nationals.
  17. kwang gae

    kwang gae 광개 Sidekick Specialist

    I understand and agree with that, wading through kicks leads to frustration and harder technique, until they're practically going at it Olympic style. Or they get backed into a wall - :p which sucks.

    :topic: I've got a student who I'm convinced, literally doesn't know his own strength. He bangs hard, whether he's sparring me or a 12 year old girl, and if someone bangs him back hard :love: he gets mad. Thinks he's being picked on.

    Like your student, he just doesn't get it. I only let him spar with select students now because I can't get through to him, but he reminds me of the guy you described. Worst part is the guys our age. :bang: and an educated professional at that.

    Yes they have continuous Olympic style, but only stop action point, and I've always been a point fighter.
  18. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Sounds like the same fricken guy!!!!

    I hate to see you switch styles. TKD NEEDS every guy like you we can get. We're bleeding out here (more like hemorraging).


    But you have to do what you gotta do for yourself first.
  19. narcsarge

    narcsarge Masticated Whey

    Totally agree with Aaron on this Kwang. We do need you. Though I am a bit older then you, I still look up to you. Your help has been great when I have needed it. Not too many of us "Elder Statesmen" around judging from my last tournament, so I like to think that we have a ton to offer to younger practitioners. Not to mention years of experience and tad bit of wisdom. Hence why I salivate at every new opportunity that comes my way.
  20. kwang gae

    kwang gae 광개 Sidekick Specialist

    I expect I'll always be a TKD guy, but I may take a break for a while and study something else. I did notify my head instructor that I'd be turning in my keys at then end of the month, (don't want to leave them high and dry).

    My hope is that I'll get to be able to drop in on our school's TKD classes every now and then, and I may be looking for a new long term TKD home. :Angel: I'm kind of at loose ends there, and that feels really weird since it's been a constant in my life for so long.

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