Changing Arts

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by waya, Feb 25, 2002.

  1. waya

    waya Valued Member

    I have seen, even with myself, that studying a new art is a difficult process. Many instructors are borderline insulting about the fact that you have experience before them. And they want you to totally give up all past training to train with them. I feel this is a bit uncalled for but it does seem to be the standard at most commercial schools. On the other hand alot of students also go into a new art thinking they know everything (I was guilty of this when I first started) and if they have a black belt in one art they should be allowed to retain it in any art they study. I don't agree with that either, since so many arts are so thoroughly different. I am wondering how different instructors handle this in their own schools?

  2. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Being a maniacal cross-trainer i've experienced, and been guilty of both points. But its refreshing and humbling when you realise that you don't know everything and you never will. If people come into the dojo with a Dan grade in judo or TKD and want to train with us i won't try to teach them breakfalls/kicking (cause they're probably better than me anyway ;)). What I will try to do is help them with they're weak spots (or blind spots), teach the grappler to punch, the kicker to grab, but not at the detriment to their other skills (and hopefully learn from them too.)

  3. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Sorry to take so long to reply to this post Waya.

    If someone comes to my club, I ask them if they have done anything else. If they say; I trained in'Campari', I will reply; 'Campari' is a very good art and leave it at that. How can I make a judgement on an art that I have never practiced. This becomes a little different if the prospective student expects me to be impressed. If he is joining my club, it is as a student, not an equal.

    If I go to another club to train, then I will keep knowledge of the arts to myself unless asked. In that case I would explain that; yes I have trained other systems, but I am there to learn that particular art.

    You will always meet someone who knows more than you do!
  4. Chazz

    Chazz Keepin it kickin TKD style

    We have had a few students come to our classes from, other styles and some are even black belts in it, but when they start our class they are a while belt. I'll take them through the exact workout that we give students who have ever gone anywhere else. I do this because if they come here to learn then i will treat them as i do everyone else. It might be basic review to them, but a review of the basics never hurt anyone

  5. Melanie

    Melanie Bend the rules somewhat.. Supporter

    "You will always meet someone who knows more than you do!"

    Andy Murray

    Ain't that the truth :(

    Moderator - Who knowsa nothin! An I come froma Barthalona!
  6. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    And if fact are advanced techniques in any discipline not just basic principles applied with a high degree of skill.

    I've entered many dojo's carrying a lot of knowledge but if I'm there to learn a specific art thats what I'm there to do, not try to prove how much I know (or dont!).

    The one of the most stupid thing I ever heard was when I entered a dojo as a white belt and was partnered with a higher grade. The instructor asked them to go over some basic techniques with me, displayed them, and set us on our way. The senior grade said 'Oh, I've already done these and don't need them, but seeing how we've been told to ....'

    So sad.
  7. Chazz

    Chazz Keepin it kickin TKD style

    It sounds like that highter grade student needed to go over the basics a lil more ;-)
  8. waya

    waya Valued Member

    Or maybe he needed his old white belt back lol
  9. Tintin

    Tintin Cats: All your base...

    I think myself lucky that we get so many people coming to our club with previous/current martial arts knowledge for a couple of reasons:
    1) They will likely have a different perspective and approach, which can benefit the instructor by exposing possible ineffectualities in some of his techniques.
    2) It can be useful to the complete MA novices in the class, as regardless of art/style, the basics of movement and balance are fairly transferable

    My worry comes from not trying to 'change' what they know, that would simply be destructive rather that constructive, but from making sure they know what is fundamental at the early stages of my particular art. I have had a couple of students that I have wanted to enter into competition, but their background knowledge has been a slight worry. 14 or so years of experience up against a complete beginner. Scary.

    A lot of people don't do themselves any favours either when cross-training. It should be a basic courtesy to ask permission from the instructor if you can wear your current belt if you are training in your own art but a different style/club. There is no way you should wear it to a different MA. Personally I try to avoid mentioning my other training if I train somewhere else. It has little relevance to what you are doing at the time, and any instructor worth his salt will spot it early on and if they want to bring it up for discussion they will.
  10. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Tintin, can I wear my black ninja suit next time we train? ;)

    Anyway, in competition that kind of previous experience can backfire, to many 'instinctive techniques' that aren't legal in certain styles, you can end up getting DQ'd or poking someone in the throat or eye.

  11. waya

    waya Valued Member

    I know someone that got disqualified for a spinning backfist to his opponent's head in a WTF tournament.... Oops lol.
    I think alot of people that crosstrain that much aren't competing alot. Personally I am just now looking into doing it again, but in open tournaments instead of style specific.

  12. Chazz

    Chazz Keepin it kickin TKD style

    Open Tournaments are great. I go to at least one a month.
  13. waya

    waya Valued Member

    I don't know much about the open tournaments here in the Southeast. I used to get into them in the Midwest and in TX but that was a long time ago.
  14. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I never really did much competition, it's really just now that I'm getting into it.
  15. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I don't understand what you mean by retaining a Belt across styles. A belt earned is irrellevant in starting a new style. Or do you mean something else Rob?
  16. waya

    waya Valued Member

    That is exactly what I meant. Alot of people I know have thought that since they are a 1st Dan etc in such and such art, then if they start a new style they should still be considered a black belt and respected as such. I guess I can understand still having respect for someone that is say a 3rd Dan or above if they come into a scholl but I still think they are just as much a beginner as the white belt that has never trained that walked in the same day.
  17. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    They are still a Black Belt, and respected for that. Any 25th degree Black Belt who joins one of my classes, would be taught the same as anyone else. I would think less of them if they expected any different. I have never had that scenario, and I have never heard of it happening either.
  18. waya

    waya Valued Member

    Here it seems to be occuring more frequently. I spoke with one person recently who had cross tested from a Japanese art in which he had a 3rd Dan and tested on what he already knew (didn't learn even the forms) and tested for his 3rd Dan in TKD.
  19. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    And no controlling body in TKD had anything to say? What did he do, give the organisation a bundle of loot? That's outrageous!

    If they tested him for 3rd, what did they test him on?
  20. waya

    waya Valued Member

    On the things he knew from the other system mostly. I was looking into joining the school until I saw that.

    I'm not sure if they were affiliated with any Org. Might be interesting to find out.

    But I have seen the opposite in me being asked to do a TKD form on a Shotokan 3rd Dan exam. I didn't understand that either.

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