A continuation from thread ... http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53930&page=5 LOL, you knew before you asked, but the answers you seek will be revealed soon, honest guv'nor. :bang: In the book :bang: Yes, in the.. :bang: Never seen any TKD books even try to cover this in-depth (the military aspect) .. what books do you refer to? I will say this, the information has been verified by the guy that did the foreword (as you will see in the book ), his father is a retired Korean Military General who was training in Tae Soo Do before & when Taekwon-do was named. His his own lineage goes through at least four 1st generation masters, he was named dropped on here on another thread for the detectives in you! Stuart
LOL - I bow down to your skills Mr Holmes Ah! But I also have a surprise just for you.. but not just yet! Stuart
Honestly I am neither interested in needling you nor in really continuing this discussion, but since you would like to address my replies from another thread here, I will happily oblige. So, yes, I figured that is how you would answer based on your replies in this thread. However, you made some comments in a completely unrelated thread that raised some questions (and advertised your book about forms in a thread about knife defenses ), so I felt warranted in asking for your sources in that thread. My point in this response is that there are a lot of TKD books filled with BS information, especially concerning the origins of TKD and oftentimes the reputations of certain people (seems like everyone and their brother was either a KCIA person, a bodyguard for the Blue House, or taught TKD/HKD to Special Forces in Vietnam) - usually without any records or information to back it up. That's why I asked for sources. If you don't want to share sources, that is fine and that is your right as the author. I do understand that. However, it's nice to get a heads-up on what kind of sources were used in a book so people can get an idea whether it's a bunch of crap strung together to make a buck or whether it is adequately researched. You wrote in the other thread that your bottom line is sales, so that does make some eyebrows go up. As for your source being the same guy who did the foreword with information from his father... so it's second hand account of another person's experiences. That can be good, especially if backed up by pertinant documents of the era. Or, it can be more "history" created by people at that time to fit in with nationalistic interests. That's why I ask about sources. Bottom line: I am sorry that you get tired of me asking about sources and I am sorry if that bothers you. You can use the old :bang: smilie all you want and I'll probably still ask. But if you choose to advertise, sell, and discuss your book here on an open forum, I will ask about your sources. To be honest, the reason I am asking questions is because I really like the topic of your book and because the TOC makes it look really appealing. The first few chapters seem to offer a good resource for some "true" history and I find that exciting (hence the source questions) and the main topic of practical applications in forms is something that could be a wonderful resource. By your own admission though, you aren't a particularly specialized in forms and you have put this all together (history, forms applications, etc.) in a year, with no real "above and beyond credentials" for this work that I can see yet. You are advertising here at MAP, where a lot of experienced people come and ask questions... but you give vague and evasive replies. You have to admit, it could make some people question you. P.S. Yes, I know... "it's in the book". P.P.S. For the point of learning and sharing though, I really do hope it's a great book and wonderful resource and I hope you make lots of money on it and make sequels.
It was mentioned because someone asked about specOps and military accounts with regards to TKD.. in went from there, so I changed the thread. Well Im obviouly not as well read as you, as Ive only come across such statements or similar things a couple of times. Its not about not sharing sourses as they are written in the book, its about people trying to by-pass someones hardwork for snippets of information. I judge a book by its content, like most I would presume. I very much doubt you asked a thousand questions of/or about the author for each book you avve on your shelf and where they got all their info from behand! Yes, it is about sales as a lot of time & effort has been invested in it, I also wrote its about knowledge and information (you missed that bit out), I have invested a lot in the book, not least a year out of my life putting it togethor (meaning the layout etc - not the contents as that was accumulated over the last 15 years or so, with my own experiences in practising, studying and researching the art. Sorry, you read that wrong, he wasnt my sourse (except on one point), he helped verify my book was factually correct. The foreword was written after the book was complete obviously! I dont get tired of it, so no need to apologise.. as long as you dont get tired of receiving the same answers. Im sure someone will answer you once the book it out so as to save you a few bucks if you want . This I can clear up now - Firstly it called being humble and when I say I dont specialize in forms, I mean to the detriment of everything else. If you want a speciality listed, you could say 'Ch'ang Hon TKD' - of which the patters are a part. To be honest, when someone says they specilize in forms or are refered to as such, they often mean they can quote the manual word for word.. Ive seen so called forms specialists teach them and didnt think much of them at all Im afraid, which was one of the reasons for writting the book. Im not sure what credentials you are looking for, am I suppose to have a PHd in patterns or something. I have the same credentials as any other author in this field - I study, practice, train & teach (and live) Taekwon-do! If that aint enough.. so be it! My history, details are searchable and easily attainable to everyone. Im keeping people informed as requested . Like I said, the book can be judged on its contents, its not a history book per se but covers some it in the process as it builds up to what its meant to be about. the history sets the scene so to speak. Question me in what regards? Are you refering to my integrity? My history? My training? Skills? I have nothing to hide and many know me and have seen me, trained with me, and if not theres videos, photos etc on the Academy site. Maybe I should trump my own trumpet more often, but I afraid thats not me. I work very much along the lines of 'I know more than some, and less than others' and thats it. I dont claim to be the be all and end all but neither to I act like I know nothing when I do! If I can learn off somebody I will, if I can help somebody else I will. Thomas you seem to know a fair bit on things but I know next to nothing about you except what your profile states, that your a history teacher from NY.. the dan grades you hold (what is Korea Guards' Martial Arts anyway?).. hows about a link to see/read some more of you, I am genuinely interested as I enjoy conversing with knowledgable people and would love to see some pics, video clips etc etc. Stuart
Oh, BTW Thomas, I hear there is a 'History of Korean martial arts book' coming out by Dr Kimm (A Korean Martial Historian) and i bet this will be right up your street. Stuart
I am going to skip replying to some of your comments. There really isn't any need to be defensive, sarcastic or petty in your comments towards me. I'm just asking questions about the book you wrote and are trying to sell. So you can see why I am asking questions? What makes you better than these "so called forms specialists" that you don't think much of? They at least are claiming some sort of specific knowlege of the forms... what makes your book better than their books or ideas? Take a moment and look at it from my point of view: -Here's a new book showing practical applications of forms -and, oh yeah, it covers a bunch of history about TKD in the military and stuff -Wow, sounds great, what are you basing your studies from and what are your sources? -I can't tell you because I worked hard looking them up. Buy it and you'll see. Can you see why I am asking questions? Your book is specifically on practical applications of forms, something that isn't very common to see. There are very few books out there that cover anything like it and usually they are by pretty high ranked people with many years in the art. The credentials I'd want to see is an explanation of why your study, as a fairly young martial artist with a good rank (4th dan?) , is capable of understanding the applications and presenting them in a superior way than anyone else who has come along. Or, are you just making stuff up out of your head and applying it to the forms (I've seen this done before as well). Let me clarify something very concisely: I am not nor have I questioned your integrity/history/training/skills. The questions I present are those that I would ask of any scholarly work and they are the questions that people will be asking once the book is out as well. I think I've been pretty polite and gentle about asking them. Your replies have been filled with defensiveness and evasiveness. Heh heh heh... surely you aren't tempted to do the old "deflect pointed questions at me by delving into the questioners' past and background" trick, are you? I'd say we are on opposite sides of the fence here, you have the role of the author and thread creator who is presenting the oportunity to learn lots of new stuff if we buy your book... as long as we don't ask questions beforehand. My role is just to ask questions. If you are really curious though, There are about 7 pages of my photos in MAP’s photo gallery: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/photos/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/1018 120 MAP Journal entries on my teaching and training: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/journal.php?do=view&journalid=1018 Between 3000 and 4000 posts here at MAP which discuss my background, teaching, training, philosophy, and etc. (You can filter the search with some keywords) http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/search.php?searchid=951563 As for Korea Guard’s Martial Art (대한민국경호협회 충효종합 무술관), I don’t have a website but this one (http://www.kgmf.co.kr/index1.htm ) is pretty close to what I studied. I learned KGMA in conjunction with IHF style Hapkido while in Korea and tested for 1st dan. It is also very similar to a 'Teuk Kong Moo Sool' and overlapped/complemented/supplemented my Hapkido training with a “bodyguard” style flavor. At the time the KGMA was headed by GM Ki Sang Kim. Beyond that I am a history teacher with a B.A. in History (hence why I like to see sources) and a M.S. Ed. I am not hiding anything and anything you want to know about is either here already or available by asking.
I do like Dr. Kimm greatly. His works are very well researched and very well presented. Unfortunately his "history" book may not come out until after his passing... to save face for some of the people involved (hence why it bears deeper research into second and thrid hand stories in the Korean arts). Thank you for the recommend.
They were not really meant as you have stated, just to try to ensure things are kept in light hearted manner! Because most of the stuff they tell their students about the applications are non-sensical, just manual quoted or complete crap TBH! I didnt say my book was better, it covers a different (and much needed IMO) area. Of course, Im not refering to everyone, just some of the stuff Ive seen. theres the opposite side like Master Willy Lim etc Your inquizitive - great. But change cant for wont online due to that reason! Hence why I wrote it and how many years in the art is enough to satisfy the reader out of interest? Besides I know of many high ranked people, with many years in arts that havnt got a clue - that means nothing really! In the book How can it be presented in a superior way to others - there are no others that I know of, which makes it a mute point/question! If there is, Id like to read them and would have brought it and saved myself the effort in the first place. So at (nearly) 35, Im still too young to understand applications!!! Im sorry, I dont follow the logic! Ive been involed with martial arts for nearly 20 years, 15+ solely in the study (not just the training) of the Ch'ang Hon TKD system. My credentials, like most authors, are in the book.. as well as on the web. If you feel Im not qualified enough to write such a book, what can I do, I cant change time! Its a book, Ive never claimed it to be a scholarly work, but thanks, thats nice! Maybe, maybe not, as the book answers nearly (if not) all the questions you have asked. Not at all, when you go and buy a meal at a resturant do you ask how the chef cooked it, what spices he used etc etc - he may act that way as well, not that Im saying i have. I refer you right back to the beginning of this thread where I said I am willing to answer general questions about the book, just not specific things that a reader will read once they get it. the things you ask are specific, not general. No, my background is easily accessible, so people dont really need to ask. Theres nothing to point me int he direction of yours, you could simply be a bloke waering a hapkido uniform for all I know. But i know this, people who question like you do are like me and usually have a genuine interest and thus a genuine knowledge from their questioning - hence why I ask! No subtefuge about it, it was a simple "know you better" thing! As I have stated, general questions are cool many of which i have answered no problem, specifics do not make sense as that is why i wrote it in the first place! Thanks, thats all I wanted! Though theres only a few of you in action as they mainly seem to be of others, exept for the posed ones.! Cool, Ill have a look when I got some time. I didnt even know that exsisted. I doubt Il be trwling through your old posts, but thanks anyway. Cool, but I cant read Korean fluently, it looks like an hapkido school with some police drills to me! LOL - that bit I figured on my own. I didnt say you were hidng anything, but until you give it up, your just another name ona forum! Anyway, thanks. How long have you done the arts in your profile? Do you run your own school? How long have you been doing that? What TKD people do you rate? Is it WTF you do? Stuart Ps. i got a video clip of an SK Special forces demo - drop me an email if interested (it around 7mb)
No need to be defensive about your credentials and please re-read my preceding posts as you'll notice that I have never questioned your skills, abilities or whatever. In fact, from your site and such, you seem to be a very good TKD instructor. All I am getting at is how you and your book can do something that lots of other people can't or haven't done. That’s it. You clearly feel that there are a lot people teaching the wrong applications (nonsense, crap, or quoted). I just want to know why someone should choose your book as a resource and what makes your book practical and accurate and not just some made-up thoughts thrown together to make a quick buck in an open niche market? What separates it from the stuff that other people do that you think of as crap, nonsense or quoted from the manual? I understand your point of view about not answering such questions and if you don’t respond, I really don’t care at this point. Do you ask such questions of all of your potential customers (like you think I must ask of all my potential authors and chefs ) ? It may sound cliche but between my day job and getting in 3-4 nights a week teaching and training (3-4 hours each session), and in staying up on my own training (preparing for 4th dan in the fall), and going to nearby seminars... I don't have a lot of time or resources to spend making video clips and action shots to put up on the internet. Generally when I do have a camera, I take pictures of my students, as I think they represent more of what I do (teaching) than a picture of me. I don't have a digital camera yet, so scanning and uploading pictures takes time. Eventually I will do some video clips though and maybe set up a website for the school. There are enough people here at MAP who have met me and/or seen me action to attest to my “action shots”. If you were closer, I’d say drop by anytime and see what I do in person. Heh heh heh… hope that’s not an example of your willingness to do a bit of research about a person. To make it easy, I posted up a bio, that way you can ask anything there without having to take this thread off topic anymore: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54140 Basically yes.
That wasnt being defensive, I answered what you asked and included a few questions om some of the stuff you mentioned, for clarification. Well, the answer is right there.. they havnt.. why I dont know, as I said previously if someone did I wouldnt of bothered, Id of just brought theirs! Well firstly, spending the time writing and doing thousands of photographs in the book for (over) a year (not to mention my own experience) will not reap the money back from sales, so it wasnt for a quick buck! Secondly, the whole idea is to give patterns more emphasis, on a more practical level - which is what IMO it achieves. As for someone chosing it, if they are interested in more practical applications its a good resourse, if not, then why would they bother. Even if it was a 'made up' source as you put it, if it showed applications on a more practical level than they are taught now, what would it matter. Its, as Ive already stated, not a historical book per se, though the history of Ch'ang Hon obviously is influential in it and I have afforded to that to the best of my ability. I am not a history teacher, a scholar, just a TKD instructor that wants to further his art.. this is my way to do it as best I can. Im sure some will disagree with things in there, as I do with other books and info, thats just how it is. I dont claim its the be all & end of of life & TKD as we know it, but Ive no doubt it will further most peoples art should they take on board its message and details and anyone who does TKD & reads it and says it doesnt isnt being truthful! Because the applications are much more practical and realistic !!! As Ive said already, Im happy to answer general questions, just not specific stuff. FWIW, I also understand your viewpoint for asking! As I mentioned in the previous post, my asking that had nothing to do with the book at all - please reread if unsure, before you quote me out of context. I take pictures of my students too, they take pictures of me and these are what I use. You are in a lot of pictures, but not a lot of the action shots is all, please dont get defensive, you just pointed me to a resource to see you in action, but I couldnt really. Im always interested in photos/video clips etc of anyone I chat to in detail on a forum which in most cases are unknown people with usernames etc. Moreso than of people I never speak to. Hence why I asked. Funnily enough, I was in New York last year! No, just Ive a busy schedule, too busy to trawl through post looking for interesting snippetts, I much prefer the bio you posted below - straight & too the point. And though you havnt, most clubs have a web site these days. how about the club you train at? Cool - thats all I was asking for Stuart Ps. you didnt answer the last few questions which you said I could ask of you!
How do you know? Have you tested them against resisting opponents or in a sparring setting? Or just in a static setting without resistance? And, are they historically accurate to the forms or something made up to fit the form? (I know, "it's in the book" ) Good. So the bulk of this discussion has no need to go forward. Heh heh heh... no matter what reason you state for it, sure does seem funny that you choose to change the conversation into a discussion on who I am and my background instead of getting into the original point of the thread, namely discussing your book concept and contents, even in a general sense. As I asked questions of you, your reply was to the point of whether I would ask so many questions to any author (or even a chef)... which really isn't so different in your case asking questions about a potential customer (me). Is this more deflection? Now instead of having to reply to my questions, you can shift the conversation onto how "qualified" I am to ask questions because of my lack of action photos. Even if I was an armchair warrior who never trained, it shouldn't make my questions any less (or more) valid. That was just a gentle rip on you about how how much research and study you have put into a subject and yet you couldn't be bothered doing a quick and easy search on the site. It was actually meant more in fun, but it could be telling. Re-read my previous post. You even quoted me saying I may set up a school website. These? You didn't read my bio, did you? Sorry: How long have you done the arts in your profile? Started TKD (and basics of Combat Hapkido) in 1994, started HKD/KGMA in 1997 Do you run your own school? How long have you been doing that? "In November 2004, we opened up our own school and have been doing well ever since." What TKD people do you rate? I sit on the testing board to rate our own students, from 10th geup and up. Is it WTF you do? "My ranks: -3rd dan WTF and ITA Taekwondo " To be honest, I really don't expect any answers from you and don't really care whether this conversation continues. I can understand your evasiveness and reasons for protecting your unreleased book. I love Taekwondo and hate a lot of the crap out there that passes for Taekwondo and/or Taekwondo resources. That's my motive for questioning and asking people about new products and such. You haven't done anything to allievate any of the doubts that I have so I just hope that the actual book will do so. I truly hope it's a wonderful book and very useful and well received... because that's good for Taekwondo, and TKD needs some good things to bolster its image. If you have any other questions on my background or who I am, post them in my bio thread. If you'd like the "last word", go ahead and post whatever, as long as there are no direct questions aimed at me I won't bother to respond.
Yes, the book even has a section on pressure testing them. Depends how you define historically accurate, if you mean simply taken from the Okinawain kata's - some are, some arnt. The book has tried to look through the eyes of General Choi & the pioneers of TKD for many of its answers as well. If theres a general type question I can answer, and you ask - it will move forward. In fact, apart from your questions on direct sources (ie. web links etc), I think Ive answered pretty much everything. Snigger all you want, its not uncommon for a thread to evolve beyond its starting topic! Sorry for displaying an interest as you seemed a knowledgable chap! People often snigger when uncomfortable btw! Different parts of the same thread, hence different subjects in hand, but I understand your confusion. The only deflection may have been pointing me to photos of you that arnt really of you, save a couple and seeing as i asked it at the end of a thread, it had nothing to do with anything you asked of me. I asked a bit about what you do/train etc, no more. Could be telling, LOL. A slight digs me thinks, but only thing it tells is that the book subject was a lot more interesting to spend time on than researching posts by you Im afraid, especially when all I asked for was a quick heads up - I think its you thats being evasive. Hence why I said "And though you havnt, most clubs have a web site these days. how about the club you train at?" - my readings just fine thanks! Yes i did actually The only dates mentioned in your bio is 1997-2001 when you went to Korea! Yes i saw that, apologies, I should have deleted the questions your profile answered. By rate, I was refering to whom you considered were good, sorry perhaps thats a UK thing, I'll rephrase - What TKD people do you feel are top notch? Funny you say that, but obviously if you ask a question, I will give a reply! And again you state you dont care if it continues, so why ask them? Im happy either way. My evasiveness have been on a small number of things that allow people to by-pass the book, that will all be revealed once its release. All general questions Ive answered I think. Well so do I, so we agree on something then! Interesting. What other products have you questioned recently then? Well, short of giving you the book, i dont think I will. It will be and I agree, it does and has for years. I just stopped sitting on my **** and did my bit (this is not a dig at you), just a point iw ant to make is that I spent many many years trying to convince people theres more to TKD than what they think, see or even learn. It was an up hill battle so I knuckled down, did my thing for the benfit of my students - this is the result. No, its fine, what you pointed me too speaks volumes, thanks. Again this regurgiation and like you, if you dont want it to continue, stop asking me things! I think you like it really Stuart
I think you and I have got off on the wrong foot. I don't particularly like the way this thread, and our interaction, has progressed and is progressing. My questioning and replies may have become a bit sharp, and it has never been my intent to insult you or the work that do (and are doing). For those things I have written that may have offended, I apologize. I hope our future interaction gets on better. I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your training, research, and book(s). The answers (and passion) you have shown and provided have convinced me pretty well that the book is probably worth a look and at some point I look forward to (buying and ) reading it. Again, I am sorry if I offended.
I see what you mean thomas, but its cool as I see it as a friendly bit of banter really. Nothing to apologise for, you havnt offended me, but I also apologise if i offended you in the process of our banter. Perhaps some of the off-shoot of things mentioned had implications in a way (whether intended or not), but nothing major, so I hope no lasting harm has been done. There certainly no issues on my side. When its out and if you buy it, then Ill look forward to your comments. And you can always IM or email if not so favourable - though I hope that wont be the case. Remember, like you, I only want the art I love to progress and go forward. Regards, Stuart
Just a quick note to let those that are interested know, that the books Forewords can be read online, via the Table of Content page. Stuart Ps. Now you can have your little surprise Madmonk
hard Back version I got some good news (well it is from my POV anyway). The paperback version is being withdrawn as the book has done so well since its released, a second edition is coming out soon and its gonna be a hardback version. Stuart
Excellent! So once PASmith and myself are done storming your dojo and destroying your students, the drinks are YOU.
