Chad Evans

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by cloudz, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    http://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foot...the-fight-for-club-to-sign-striker/ar-BBhyGPv

    Personally I tend to agree with the former Police officer who appears to be backing the hiring of Chad Evans at Oldham.

    The main thrust of the opposition seems to be about footballers being role models, and a convicted rapist should not be allowed the "privileged" life of a footballer.

    I really don't find these arguments very convincing. I'm sure those of you In the UK have seen this one rumbling on for a while, initially at Sheffield where his former club chose not to take him on after some serious up swell of public opinion against it as well as some high profile names speaking out.

    It's somewhat of a tricky ethical question, so I can understand some feeling against him, but I think it's turned into an unfair witch hunt of sorts. As a society we give people another chance and an opportunity for rehabilitation and redemption, why do you think Chad Evans is being made an exception, should he be: just because he plays football?

    Another aspect is that he still maintains that he was not guilty of rape even though convicted of it, which also seems to be a major stumbling block in this.
    Any thoughts on the whole situation, are you one of those that doesn't believe he should be allowed back to continue his chosen career ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    The backlash isn't because he's a football player, it's because he is a public figure.

    The club has sponsors, the reputation of those sponsors can be impacted by the reputation of the club and the reputation of the club is impacted by the reputation of its players and Ched Evans is a rapist.

    I've no problem with him getting a job stacking shelves in a supermarket, but he has no right to a career as a professional athlete.
     
  3. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Well sure most footballers playing professionally can become public figures or are public figures.

    Is there a law which says he has no right to go back to his former career? On what basis do you deny those rights other than your emotional reaction to him being a convicted rapist? I don't really understand why professional athletes have to operate on different rules and be afforded less rights than everyone else just because they can be in the public light. For example Mike Tyson was allowed to continue boxing.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    People are much easier to forgive robbery, theft and even GBH than rape. Rapists and peadophiles seem to be the most widely rejected/unnamed table people in society.
     
  5. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    There's no law saying that he does.
    It's not about operating on different rules. It's about economics. Ched Evans is going to cost a football club money in the form of sponsors and potentially in terms of attendance. They have to decide whether the benefits he brings as a player outweigh those financial costs to the club. If the answer is yes, someone will sign him. If the answer is no, they wont.

    It was different for Mike Tyson because he was in an individual sport, where the only person losing sponsorship was him (and you better believe he did).
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think he should be free to be a footballer.
    And the people that run football clubs should be free to say "I'm not giving a rapist employment at my club".
    Problem solved really.

    I think Cloudz you should read some more about the conduct of Evans and those associated with him. He runs a website that has been implicit in naming the woman involved, spreading misinformation about incident and ultimately leading to the woman being targetted and victimised.
    There is some unfairness going on here but I think that's been on the woman involved rather than this Evan muppet.

    I think there'd be more acceptance of him if he actually showed some contrition for what he did.
    But he can't do that because that would jeopardise his chances on appeal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    You can only rehabilitate people that admit what they did was wrong and take responsibility for their actions.
    Evan's has done neither as far as I can see.
    That could be because he's been wrongfully convicted and is innocent OR it could be because he did do it but he's trying to maximise his chances of getting it overturned on appeal.

    If he came out and said he was sorry for what he did, was now working with rape charities to raise awareness of rape and rape culture and was pledging those charities 10% of his income from football he'd be much more accepted.
     
  8. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Doesn't need to be, but without getting too bogged down in a figure of speech I was questioning the question of "rights" that was in your statement. You said something along the lines of him not having the right to go back to pro sport.
    He has the right under the laws of our land, would you agree with that then ?

    So "right" in this case - the way you used it - was purely a subjective feeling on your part agreed?

    Ok, so you seem to be shifting from your stance of your believing he has no right to a career in pro football to one of it being bad economically for the club involved effectively due to bad publicity.

    It a fair concern for the clubs, I don't doubt that. But people often forgive and forget with time and get on with their lives. I'll bring up Mike Tyson again - I'm sure he generated big money in his sport, and not just for himself.

    Any club taking on Chad Evans would have to weigh up any success he may help bring on the pitch and what that means to them financially against what would be a probably temporary negative reaction that would probably blow over.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  9. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    He has the opportunity, but that is not a right.

    There is no right or legal entitlement for him to be employed as a footballer. It is the right of the club to choose who they employ.

    If no club will employ him because he is a convicted rapist, well that's too bad, he probably should have considered that before raping someone.

    I'm sure McDonald's will take him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Perhaps "privilege" is a better term. "He shouldn't have the privelege of being a pro footballer".
     
  11. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    His best bet is to go abroad where he isn't villified as much as he is here.
     
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Come now...they do have some standards. :)
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    No, I believe holyheadjch was using "right" in the legal sense.

    No one has a legal entitlement to employment.

    If no-one will employ you, you can't take anyone to court for it.
     
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think it would send a good message if no club would employ him.

    The repercussions of crime do not stop once your sentence is up. You have to live with your decisions for the rest of your life.

    You could have him filmed in the dole queue for rape awareness public service ads.
     
  15. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Oh absolutely, that is perfectly fair and right. It seems to me though that it's public opinion that is swaying the clubs than the clubs themselves coming to that decision on their own. And in a way that's perfectly fine too. people need to make up their own minds what they think and whether he should be victimised for a crime he has already served prison time for. Crime + punishment should mean a clean slate of sorts - at least be allowed to get back to your life by others.


    Maybe, that's a fair thing to bring up - I have heard some of this also. Here's the thing, I'm no expert on the case. But I am going to say this anyway - maybe he thinks a rape conviction was harsh/ wrong and he really believes/ thinks/ knows he wasn't guilty of raping the girl. Perhaps she was in not fit to consent in a sober state and know her own mind if she went along with it - it seems this case was particularly blurry, when it comes to the issue of consent.

    I'm not making a judgement here in that I believe his version or not, but I will say that people have a right to claim their innocence even if they have been convicted. How can there be no element of doubt when it basically comes to one persons word against another's regards the consent issue.

    But yes, I would take that as a valid reason for some people being against him.
     
  16. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think you can maintain innocence without being complicit in the abuse and targetting of the victim.
    He doesn't seem to be doing much to minimise the backlash against the woman even if he is innocent.
     
  17. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    That's the thing.. You're right it is down to the club. But in terms of ethics and principles don't you think a person who has served a sentence for a crime should be afforded the same chances as anyone else. If that means a successful business, or career in whatever - what should it matter really ?

    Isn't his opportunity in some way being bogged down by prejudices, whether you ultimately feel that's right or wrong. I guess it's going to happen - people will have an opinion for sure.

    And by the way you say it is not a "right", but why cant he have the same rights as everyone lese if he has served his punishment under the laws of the land?

    I would argue that if it is not illegal he does have the "right", just that people don't want him to have that "right" or freedom based on other factors other than football. At the end of the day it is simply a job in football. Some may see that as a privilege, probably due to what they tend to earn. I think that's not really the case. It's a perception that seems unfounded to me.
     
  18. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    It may not be a "nice" way to act. But if he has served time, maybe he thinks this person does not deserve anonymity. In his mind he may think she deserves some form of punishment for what he has gone through because of what happened. Again this assumes he has some ground for such feelings/ actions - I'm not saying he does as none of us will ever be able to really know.. Unless he comes clean so to speak.
     
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    You can always give him a job where you work cloudz?

    You can't "force" people to accept a convicted criminal as if nothing untoward ever happened.
    We had a guy at one club I trained at that raped someone. He's essentially a non-person to me. Other people can give him a job, be friends with him, etc. I wouldn't.
     
  20. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    No it's not a right per se, that would be the wrong term, but freedom of employment would be a better fit in this context. I don't think holly was thinking in legal terms when he wrote it. I would venture that he was thinking more in terms of a moral right when he said it. I may be wrong..

    This has nothing really to do with a legal entitlement to employment but he should be free to continue his career if someone gives him that opportunity.

    With this thread I wanted to really highlight the backlash and things people have been coming out against this freedom.. If it purely between the employer and employee that's something different as clearly being in the public eye means the general public will have their opinions. Several high profile people have said they don't think he should have the privilege of being a footballer due to something he has already been punished for.

    That's denying him a freedom of employment that everyone else has. I'm pretty sure if it was just down to the clubs he would be hired in a shot by a pro football club.
     

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