canelo vs angulo ?

Discussion in 'Boxing' started by belltoller, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    No, you NEVER stop throwing your jab IMO of course. You jab and pivot more away from the right hand... if you aren't throwing your jab... what is your first line of defense besides your face?
  2. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I thought hard about this...thinking that possibly a left hook could substitute under certain conditions ( more in MT than straight boxing ) if you've very fast footwork its a good counter and has power behind it - thinking of Roy Jones...but ... no...nothing has the speed, range and ability to be thrown without over committing as the jab.

    Nothing works for setting up other strikes as well as the jab, either.

    Right, I'd say the jab = first line and keep 'em coming, except to mix 'em up with a hook once in a while to avoid predictability.
  3. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    You can try to counter or get on the inside.

    Not saying you should ever stop throwing the jab btw, but if you're getting countered on your jab it means the other guy has figured you out, so you have no choice but to change it up or eat counters all day.

    Nothing is certain when you're fighting someone better than you though, whatever Canelo was going to do was going to be hard to pull off.
  4. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Right... I'm not attempting to argue, just point out the obvious that Canelo is good... he's only good and not great and cannot adjust while in the ring. This is why I have said before and still stand by my statement that the current guy from 154 and down who gives Floyd his (maybe) hardest fight is going to be Tim Bradley.
  5. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    A good point to ponder. The ability to adjust one's style/strategy to reflect changing or unanticipated conditions - Ali being the pinnacle of this trait ( and a requirement to join the league of Greats ) - is it usually always present to some degree regardless of the fighter's age or are there cases where its developed relatively later - thinking of Canelo's relative youth and the fact that he seems to be above avg in intelligence - that is he knows he needs to learn to adjust + physical youth = something we may see of him in the future?
  6. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    I think Canelo's an alright kid. He's good like I said and he could become very good... but at what he does and not with a massive style change which would only hurt him. The problem being is that you can actually see Floyd change things in the ring and he is not at all predictable.

    I would have to see how Canelo does vs. Lara or someone else that was speedy and was a bit more awkward... perhaps even Martinez at his age and not knowing if the surgeries he has gone through will hold him together for a full 12 rounds.

    The win over Angulo is much like looking impressive while hitting a heavy bag that your trainer is swinging at you with a bad from behind it and calling when. Angulo like I said (or I think I did) had only a punchers chance, but is I would say a c+ fighter at his best. The win looks good to those who know little about boxing, or even one who is a fan of the winner, but it doesn't mean anything at all or show how things would go vs. an elite. The good news for him (Alvarez) is that he has plenty of time and opponents to pick from.

    The bad news is that for all of the hype that is building around him, the PPV only drew 350k buys which isn't bad, but I would have thought at least 500k. Which means even worse news for those who hate Floyd... the 1.7 or so million vs Alvarez? Yeah... most of that was still him lol.
  7. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Cor ...what does a fellow have ta do to impress you? LOL

    But, you've said elsewhere, its all about putting fighters in front of a boxer he/his manager knows he can beat.

    I reckon we're all desperate - too desperate - for new heroes.

    Bradley ( for Floyd ) yes...but how's about...Gennady Golovkin for a real legacy crown? Wouldn't have to win, just put in 110? Have we ever seen more than...75% - honestly?

    Come on, lets have it! First Annual People's Demand Fight - don't touch the record books if need be.
  8. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    For me I don't see the point in going up yet another weight class for a guy who walks around under 150 most of the time. Now would it be a good legacy fight? Absolutely!... but let's assume that Bradley beats Manny convincingly and somehow works out a deal to fight Floyd. Bradley would have solid wins over not only multiple undefeated fighters who were or are at the top of their game... he would also have wins over 2 all time greats in Manny and Marquez. Floyd fights Bradley and assuming he wins that fight... that just makes him look even better.

    As it stands now khan (who wasn't going to be bullied by Floyd lol yeah right) is going to now fight Luis Collazo on the undercard of Floyd vs. Maidana. The winner will supposedly be Floyd's next opponent. Collazo is very slick, has a good chin and has questionable losses to both Hatton (prime) and Berto who I think he won by at least 2 rounds, so khan has his work cut out for him. Collazo will time that left hook and IMO hurt khan or KO him completely... but we'll see if khan's punch output can manage to discourage Luis.
  9. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Also, I think Golovkin is a great fighter, but he is fighting chafatz jr at 168 and if he happens to have any serious issues with him, the media will be all over a Martinez vs. Golovkin fight and it will only make Martinez look better (this is assuming he can get passed Cotto)
  10. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    I'm not assuming Martinez will get past Cotto. Its a possibility but Cotto wants this historic badly. Its (Cotto/Martinez) looking better all the time.

    => Martinez is a natural cam hog - He's only a few cm taller ( at 178cm ) than Cotto but the camera angle makes him look HUGE next to Cotto, LOL


    I thought the preponderance of opinion was going toward Alverez as next in line for the winner of CvsM. Especially as Canelo doesn't want Erislandy Lara

    But I'm lucky to have all of 5 minutes a week to catch up on things.
  11. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Yeah, I saw some of these pics a while back. Cotto is listed some places at 5'8, but pretty much everyone else says he's 5'7. Martinez is 5'10. Sergio is a cam hog because he is or was a part time model. The guy is always in shape though. He loves to mountain bike and is very active. Cotto when he has time off, is off and with his family (where he should be) so I don't know how active he is. I do wonder how much of that riding has taken it's toll on Sergio's knees though. Just riding my recumbent bike my knees tend to bother me some and I find myself constantly adjusting my feet to take the pressure off of them.

    Part of me would really like to see Cotto get his title in 4 weight classes, but if he's smart he won't stay at 160. The one thing that is interesting is that (which I think I said before) Floyd will be at ringside. If Martinez struggles, look for some talks between he and Floyd next. Even if he says he will fight khan.. I think he knows better and that does not one thing for his legacy which I think he's been thinking about more as the last few fights of his career approach. I'd love to see that fight. At 160 if Floyd wins and wins impressively... he will get quite high up on that all time great list. He isn't going to fight Golovkin... to much risk vs. little reward. Floyd wants the money more than anything else.
  12. puma

    puma Valued Member

    I personally don't think Mayweather needs anyone else for his legacy. I looked at his record the other day and it reads like a 'who's - who' of fighters in and around his weight of his generation. I think his record is far superior to say Leonards. I know people love Sugar Ray, and rightly so. But I think he had 30-something fights, maybe 40, lost 3?, drew one he should have lost, and if he was fighting 12 rounds instead of 15, would have lost to Hearns the 1st time. He literally ran away from Hagler too. Take Hagler, Duran, Hearns, Benitez, maybe Mayweathers dad and maybe Lalonde, off his record and most people wouldn't have heard of most of the others. Not to criticise, just saying. Floyd has legitimately won titles in 5 weights also, not fighting for 2 weights in one fight. All I am saying is if Floyd retired today, he can rightly be considered on of the best ever, and I don't think that will change by fighting say Martinez. I only picked Leonard by the way because he is someone that Floyd is regularly compared to.
  13. Zinowor

    Zinowor Moved on

    Yeah, his record is more impressive than most if not all the other GOAT candidates.
  14. Saved_in_Blood

    Saved_in_Blood Valued Member

    Yes it is, but the problem is always going to be the detractors who say "Hatton wasn't in his weight class" or "Cotto was past his prime", "Judah was never really that good". These are actual excuses I have heard from people. I got to talking to a guy a few months back (who farted silently at some point during the conversation because it smelled like a dead rotting rat) and he and another guy tried to give me the whole "I think DLH beat Floyd"... I mean really? DLH hardly touched Floyd at all and was totally outclassed. I can see how if you hated the guy, you might say he did all the pushing and shoving.... but won? Give me a break.
  15. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Floyd shouldn't need anyone else for his legacy. The problem with Floyd is he makes everyone else look like junior-school primers and there is a tendency to poo-poo everyone he beats; to see his opponents as less than they actually are. SIB touches on this from a different angle in his last post.

    Joe Frasier and George Foreman <=== who I want to be when I grow up = gave Ali a run for his money. People think that there was Ali, a pack of dogs who could never dream of catching up to him and Frasier/Foreman who stood skill wise between the pack of dogs and Ali.


    The world at that time just happened to be graced with three World-Class Champions Extraordinaire at the same time - Ali, Frasier and Foreman.

    Had Frasier and Foreman not been born, Ali would have faced the same sort of problem that Floyd Mayweather now faces.

    Mayweather would actually benefit from having fighters in his weight division that had talent comparable to his own. Mayweather needs a George Foreman.

    I mentioned GGG because the Foreman/Frasier equivalents don't exist today or for whatever reasons have not surfaced. Glovokin, who of course is a fantasy choice, is the mind's attempt to provide that counterweight, to appreciate Floyd's legacy with the same "no questions asked" respect that Ali and other world title holders have garnered.

    Mayweather doesn't need anyone else for his legacy anymore than Muhammad Ali needed George Foreman for his.

    But having them (Frasier, Foreman) there at that time made the pot seem all the richer and Ali benefited from that.

    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  16. puma

    puma Valued Member

    Nice post. People forget Ali fought some stiff's too. "Bum of the month" and all that. People also forget that Mayweather NEVER struggles with people not near his level, like Ali did with say Cooper when he got put on his ****. To do that as long as Floyd has with no hiccups, well, anything too serious, takes tremendous concentration levels.
  17. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Thanks. I thought it one of my better thought out posts but ... :dunno:

    I suppose playin the loon so much has the effect of a kinda typecasting. That's all people see.

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