Difference is, Froch has fought great fighters, tough guys. Golovkin has not been in with any fighter at all that can be considered a real threat to him. Oh, no misunderstanding here. I completely understand, and that is why I am saying I think he is getting away with things that he wouldn't be able to with the elite. I think a good fight before he jumps in with someone like Ward, which I don't think he ever will by the way, would be someone like George Groves. Maybe Degale? I am no fan of Degale, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he beat Golovkin. I think both these fighters would tell us a lot about him.
Both of those fighters are a level below the level of fighter Froch is though, although i think Degale would be pretty interesting from a technical stand point, it's an unnecessary fight once Froch has been beaten. But the main thing is, i think you need to stop underselling his amateur record, this crude, seemingly unpolished footwork has been with him for a while, and people have been saying he's going to come across guys who'll run circles around him, but not only has it never happened, but most of the guys who people keep saying would be the elite of the elite and real tests for him, are avoiding fighting him like the plague, but lets face facts, you don't get to 345-5 without that footwork being exceptional, albeit lacking grace, or he's been on cruise control for a while, and has more tricks in the bag he's yet to pull out, cause i mean, if your contention is that he's grown complacent fighting b level fighters, given his background alone, i really can't buy it.
Yeah, I don't quite understand the hate here. Golovkin's not a defencive fighter and I don't think it fair to dismiss him because he is not. In the same manner I don't quite follow people constantly dissing everything Mayweather does because Floyd is not an "offensive fighter" - Floyd does employ offesive techniques and likewise Golovkin has his own style of defence. One could say that his best defence is his well-thought out offense. Err...no offense meant. If you've ever seen GGG cut-off the ring for those circling away you'll realise his sense of ring placement is astounding - as is his ability to dismantle his opponent once they are cornered. That's not plodding - it actually takes good footwork. Now for those fighters like Mayweather who are as at home against the ropes as most of us are warming our feet by a log fire, that simply won't work as a reliable, go-to strategy. For 95% of fighters; however, it works and works well. I really don't get the impression that Golovkin's a "lets stand and bang" boxer - a real plodder in the way that say, Ruslan Provodnikov, for example, might be considered as such. I don't see a reckless, caution-abandoning fighter in Golovkin - swinging mindlessly for the fences -his excellent combinations are dangerous because they are well thought out and find their target - he isn't throwing out flurries in bunches hoping that something'll land or that they will at least distract his opponent for a while - GGG's combos are part of an effective strategy - and remember - Golovkin is not fast by any real measure - which doubly requires that he is in control of ring placement, is in control of strategy, who utilises their punches and combos as part of that strategy and is as engaged in a game of chess as someone of Mayweather's ilk. As far as not been tested against the elites of the defencive boxing royalty - I agree that he will have trouble. I never thought he could beat Mayweather, irrespective of size. If GGG is not getting the elite fights, its not from his want of trying. I say he takes Froch. Ward? ... It'll be going on two years since Ward defended his belt. His last top-5 defence was in 2012. I know much of the problems with his former promoter were to blame for his outage but we are arguing who will take who if they were to step into the ring on that hypothetical date of "tomorrow", right? I'd said in my last post that I thought, if all other things - meaning, activity, injury, ring-rust, etc., that Ward would defeat GGG but in this imperfect world where it is very rare to have equality in such things at all times, I have doubts regarding Ward's ability to handle Golovkin without several successful, well-thought out tune-up fights - including a major training camp rehab from the long layoff.
Well, there is certainly no hate from me towards Golovkin. I always try to visualise the fighters actually fighting each other when making a prediction. Because fighter "a" beat fighter "b" and "b" beat "c", it doesn't always mean "a" beats "c" too. Also people tend to look at the end result, not always how they got there. Golovkin has some real highlight reel knock outs, but that doesn't tell the whole story. I just think, a bit like Pacquiao, he has been built up out of all proportion, and when he does fight a guy that he can't handle people will jump all over him. And that wouldn't be fair. Like building Pacquiao up to beat Mayweather, or even when people actually thought Algieri would beat Pacquiao! I mean, come on. But people were not actually looking at what was really important when making those comments. Golovkin is good, no doubt, but I think you'll find he won't be undefeated much longer. And him chasing Floyd is no win. I think Floyd beats him at an weight, GGG will be swinging at thin air, but if he did get lucky and chin him, everyone will say , "Yeah, but you beat a midget!" So at some point he will need to go up. Degale, Dirrel, Groves, those kind of fighters I think he should try next, then if he can come through okay, then we can talk about Ward. As of now, time out or not, I think that would be a hard fight to watch if you're a Golovkin fan. Just my opinion.
I don't really doubt that there are fighters who could box him up, but i'm one of those sorts of people who likes a lot of doubt surrounding my marquee fights, and i just don't think tough guys with 8 pounds would be much trouble to a fellow like Golovkin, Ward is a fight where i don't know who'd win, Golovkin is giving up weight to a very technical guy, but Ward hasn't fought in over 18 months, so questions abound, but a guy like Froch, well, the word on the street is Golovkin has dropped Kovalev more than once in sparring, so i don't see what a tough guy who'd be looking to press home the weight advantage is gonna do to him.
Coincidentally, I'm watching Degale vs Dirrel from the 23 May. Interesting tidbit - Dirrel has already fought Golovkin - I believe twice. The first time Dirrel got the decision by one point ( I don't know any details about that bout ) and then a few months later, he lost to Golovkin in the 2004 Olympics with Dirrel taking the Bronze and Golovkin taking the Silver. So, interestingly enough, Dirrel (at least on paper) accounts for one of the few losses on Golovkin's amasing amateur record. This is what Dirrel had to say about Golovkin ( from Oct, 2014 Fight Hype interview ) "I actually fought him twice. I fought him in Mississippi and I came out with the decision in that one. And I fought him maybe 3 months later in the Olympics and I believe I won that fight, but didn't [get the win]. I remember him being a pretty solid opponent, but I don't remember the power at all, so when I heard about him having a lot of power, I didn't believe it until I seen him get in the ring," ... "Even though this guy hasn't got in the ring with top name opponents, he's still gotten in there with tough opponents. To get in there with the knockout ratio that he has, that's saying something right there, so we know he has the power, man. He is someone I'm definitely hoping comes up to 168 and fights me because my experience with him was left undone. The Olympics were as important to me as a world championship at the time, so I wanted that gold and he was the one who stopped me from getting it. I'd want to meet him again, and especially with the hype that he's had," Dirrell explained during a recent in-depth conversation with FightHype.com. "I can be the champion at 168 and he can come up and try to take my belt and give him something to come up for. That's a fight I'm definitely looking forward to and he's one solid fighter. He has a TON of hype, man, but when that time comes when he gets in there with a top opponent, then we'll see what Gennady Golovkin really has. As far as all of the credit he's getting right now, I believe he's earned it because he is quite a knockout puncher. I like his power." The seeming contradictions ( as has occurred in Martain Murray interviews ) regarding Golovkin's punching power should be taken in context - its really as high a regard as someone like Dirrel, who lost an Olympic Medal to Golovkin, could pay to another fighter. As far as a Ward qualifier ? Frock, Groves, Degale? Yeah, any of those. All of those. I do believe in cleaning out a division in order to really be called up on the P4P. I think Golovkin patient enough himself to do that but its just that there is so much politics, corrupt and otherwise, at play anymore. I'm nearly as much a fan of Andre as I am of Gennady, but I don't think the two year ring rust is going to be brushed off that easily. Deep rust usually require taking a bath in a de-oxidation solution, being machine ground, sand blasted, oil-annealed and hardened at high heat in thermal ovens to get back to the original condition.
Nice spot Mr Belltoller! I didn't know they fought. That Dirrel is a strange one. I thought he edged Degale, personally. But whatever, he is very skilled and talented, but he seems to lack, not necessarily heart, that might not be fair, but just that "something." I don't think with his talent he should be getting dropped and struggling with Degale. I just think, Ward, a bit like Mayweather, has boxed and trained so long, it is now second nature. From what I hear he trains a lot, so I don't think rust is a problem, just like when Floyd had time off. He may even come back hungrier!
Thanks puma - well, valid arguments either side of it. I suppose if it were a sure-fire, plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face , wouldn't be any fun comin' on here and havin' a row over it
No, guess it wouldn't. I think GGG at the moment reminds me a little bit of when Donaire was being built in to the next big thing, partly I thought because he is Filipino, and apparently there is another famous boxer from those parts. No idea who that is. Anyway, I knew he would lose to Rigondeaux, but people thought I was mad. I see similarites with Donaire and Golovkin, not in the way they fight, but the way they are being put over to us.
Just don't see it, Puma. There are more differences between Nonito and Gennady than similarities, even irrespective of their fighting styles. Donaire actually fought on the same card as Golovkin during the latter part of last year. If you talk about the quality of competition separating the good from the truly elite - there's no better example than that partiular bout where Donaire lost to - Nick Walters - by committing amateur-level errors. (ja, no surprise he'd been beaten by Rigondeaux - a stick and move artist who is largely underrated IMO - ) Don't see Golovkin making those sorts of mistakes - and where he does, his power nullifies them. That's one big difference! GGG isn't being "put over on us", lol! If anything, poor sod's not getting the fights he deserves due to lack of name recognition. If it takes a bit of hyping to get him some important matches - can one blame him? Ja, name fails to ring a bell :whistle:
Yeah, put over wasn't quite what I meant, but I forgot what I was saying. You get what I mean though. I was listening to Ward being interviewed the other day, and he seemed to think Golovkin had been offered the fight, but wouldn't take it. Not saying that is true, but interesting.
Don't worry about it I'm pretty sure it is true; I didn't hear the interview with Andre and what he said the reasons for GGG not taking the fight were but I think in part Gennady's team declined because Ward wasn't able to bring enough money to the table to make it worth the risk for Golovkin plus they aren't in the same weight-divisions and GGG still has yet to clear out his natural weight division. There was also a lot of nastiness with Ward suing/being sued by his former promoter, court case after court case, IIRC and no doubt Golovkin's management probably saw legal/technical problems. Canelo, Cotto - a lot more money and less risk. After 350 ammy's and 33 pro fights, he understandably thinks its about time to be getting paid some serious money for the work he's put in over the years. Its not like - there's Andre - at the top of G's division, free and clear without legal encumbrances, big draw, etc. I could see reason's why he wouldn't want the fight other than the fear of a loss on his record although there is a chance Ward ( an active Ward ) would be his Waterloo.
Well, I think a Cotto or Alvarez fight would be better all round anyway. I think both have a serious chance, and even if they lose, you know they will make a fight of it. There is a big gap between fighting one of those two and Ward. That is a huge leap.
Well, it would defiantly be much more of a brawl, as opposed to the bullfight Ward would be, but Ward has a tune up bout soon, so we shall see just how much rust he got during his...sabbatical?
And there's that. Ward is now officially "primed", lol. But it looks like Golovkin is the mandatory for the winner of Alvarez/Cotto, then? But Roach said that since "Manny Pacquiao doesn't know who he (GGG) is, then Golovkin doesn't have enough of a fan base to be worth it." Yeah, uh-huh. THE WBC wants an agreement that the winner of Canelo/Cotto will fight Golovkin in order for the title to be on the line. And Roach has never heard of him? Meanwhile, GGG is getting called out by Bradley...a fight with David Lemieux <--- a fight that I like --- may be in the works. What happened to Carl Froch?
Yeah, that has been the problem with boxing for a while, words, words and words, yet hardly a fist thrown, still, you have to feel bad for Froch, best chance at getting into the limelight again will be if he can beg Ward for a third go, which we all know isn't gonna happen.
I don't know about that - Ward's been rather magnanimous of late, even gave Paul Smith back the £30,000 or so that Smith had to forfeit over to him for missing weight so badly. "third go" ? When was the second? Think you to mean George, then? LOL There's always Joe Calzaghe, lol. Froch has a film due out soon, if I'm not mistaken; Once Upon A Time in London is it?
